Not Just Tactics
Not Just Tactics is a Warmachine podcast featuring fresh perspectives on the game and its community. This will be done through product review, game play mechanics, tactics, lore, and various other content.
Not Just Tactics
From Ruins To Werebeasts, How Old Umbrey Rallies Kador’s Wild Heart
Bone charms rattle, crows gather, and an old city wakes. We head into Old Korska to unpack why Old Umbrey feels both feral and frighteningly precise: a subfaction where Zevanna Agha’s legend meets modern rifles, where corpse tokens fuel warbeasts, and where one well-marked prey target disappears under disciplined fire and sudden teeth. If you’ve ever wondered how Baba Yaga energy becomes a tournament plan, this is the map.
We start with the fault lines in Kador’s history—Kardovic’s unification, Umbra’s resentment, and the Old Witch’s long game—then track Bohdan Lesnoi from Greylord infiltrator to architect of Umbreys resurgence. His Bird’s Eye vision and control range set the board, while Strix delivers reactive movement and post-roll boosts that clean up variance. Vorony, the not-so-inconspicuous crow, anchors a corpse economy: absorbing hits with Ancient Shroud, hoarding tokens, and shuttling them to primevals for grievous wounds and charge efficiency. The Witchmarked Totem pressures space with permanent armor debuffs, making every shot and swing hit harder.
We dive into the Chosen of the Witch and the debate between lore fit and raw utility, then show how Galena’s prey engine brings it all together—stacking terrain, curses, and marksmanship to erase priority pieces. On the heavier side, Gorgers become modular answers: pick heads for control or burst, choose Cat-O-Spine Tails to shred screens or Primal Club to break anchors, and use sprays and clouds to punish clumps. If you prefer finesse over brute force, Resnikova seeds forests and turns line-of-sight into a weapon, inviting beasts to strike from cover and fade.
Looking to demo Old Umbrey? We share proxy-friendly tips to protect fragile models and keep games flowing, plus magnetizing advice to future-proof your kits as point costs and rules evolve. Whether you come for the lore or the list tech, Old Umbrey rewards players who like layered decisions—resource routing, terrain shaping, and surgical violence. If this unlocked new ideas or got you hyped to build Umbrey, tap follow, share with a friend who loves Kador deep cuts, and drop a review with the one model you’d field first.
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Hey there, listeners. NJT here, bringing you fresh perspectives on all things war machine and building the community we surround ourselves with. Remember, we're not just tactics. Hey Angus. Hey Tony. What's going on? Just built some old Umbre. Got that Ooh kidding. Yeah. Got some old Umbre built. Got the command starter for that. That's all pieced together. Very cool. Yeah. Can't complain there. Really happy that I got them. I'm working towards getting all of the armies 30-point command starters, and it's going to just keep fleshing itself out. Okay. And eventually when we start doing demos at some of the local shops, I do want to be able to pull out abundant armies and say, take your pick. What looks cool to you? Ooh.
SPEAKER_03:Man. I love the idea of being able to do that, but the models are so fragile.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think I would like print out the bases and then uh like make a little paper pog that like glues onto it with an image of what it is. Maybe people push that around.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Maybe that will be something that I have all the models there ready to go painted and then using kind of like pogs as the proxy for them to start learning. Yeah. Or get just behemoths out there and let them push those things around. But then that's an expensive knockover. What's in this army? Two gorgers. Yes, exactly. Two gorgers, two lords of the hunt, varone, and that's all I need.
SPEAKER_03:Your command starter comes with Bodan, or is that who you plan on using for the most part? I think so.
SPEAKER_00:I've been looking at the some of the casters in there, and I'm looking at Bodan, the caster that comes in the battle group, the sniper.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she looks pretty good. She's super cool. I'm a fan of her vexing. I don't know. I I I've been toying around with some of the the one that they made the extreme model for the caster, the snake lady. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Uh just gonna say that doesn't really narrow it down. No, an extreme model for everybody but Bodon.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And Yana. Yeah. We need an extreme Yana.
SPEAKER_00:But she's already pretty extreme. We need more extreme. I I agree. The bear is riding her into battle. Yes. There you go. Hey boo-boo. Let's go find a picnic basket. And have her toting one as she's like running along and the bear's like swiping at other people.
SPEAKER_03:I like it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I could I could throw down for that. But what has your hobby been like?
SPEAKER_03:Uh, in some ways very similar to yours. I too have been working on old Umbre. I put together the battle group and I plan to be running Galena.
SPEAKER_00:And that's the sniper?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Alright. And then I've also been printing off some of the Crucible Guard stuff. I've got Lock and Apollo printed so far. And then I've been painting up some gators.
SPEAKER_00:Mmm. So it sounds like you're throwing down three new armies? Yes. Now here I am sitting here trying to get one done, and you're like, oh take on three.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, supposedly, well, not supposedly. I know for a fact I have them because they're in my living room. I have the uh mummies. Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:So technically I have four projects. So you've got four different projects that you're working on, all at the exact same time. Yes. Oh, it sounds like the old days of 40k and Warhammer Fantasy all over again. I've made a huge mistake. But it's a good one to have. Yeah, it's not terrible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's just re-adapting and relearning on how all these work. And then when we actually get the time and we actually throw down the models, you know, go from there.
SPEAKER_03:And then a couple of days ago, I took out Barnabas and a couple of the uh swamp squids to a game. Well, two games. The first one I got wiped immediately. And then the second one was Glorious Victory.
SPEAKER_00:Did you use Barnabas in both?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Both times it was a 30-point game, and I just ran Barnabas and two squids.
SPEAKER_00:If I remember right, the squids are pretty good at like grabbing things, pulling them in, and then eating them.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um the squids are really good at messing up light infantry. Anything beyond that, they struggle.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Fortunately, Barnabas is pretty good at handling anything that the squids aren't particularly good at handling.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, that definitely makes a lot of sense. And then you just gotta be a little cautious. Yeah. So that way when you throw him in and he dives, then you're ready to go and capable of covering up that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And Barnabas's feet is gross.
SPEAKER_03:What is his feet? Anything in his control range that doesn't have amphibious is knocked down.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god. That's Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, so that means that you're alt defense five.
SPEAKER_03:Or auto-hitting if you're in close combat, which is what Barnabas is gonna be doing.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:So he just walks up there, pops feet, and just starts slapping things around.
SPEAKER_00:What's his range?
SPEAKER_03:I think it's two.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it's even worse.
SPEAKER_03:With the axe. Yeah. And then he's got a bite attack, which he can just gobble up a small model if he gets a crit.
SPEAKER_00:Critical consume. Yeah. Yeah, that that's not gonna be a good day. Yeah, I would avoid that. I can definitely also see why that's up your alley. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Definitely want to get some of like the actual gator war beasts, but so far the only thing I've been able to get my hands on is the squids.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm sure you'll be able to hunt them down here eventually. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, Chris is not available to join us today. He's not feeling too well. And he's gonna be staying home, resting, but today, kind of celebrating what Angus and I have been working on. We're gonna do old Umbre. Hooray! Yes, so we're gonna go ahead, we're gonna cover we're gonna be covering the lore of Old Umbre, the command starter, as we have been for the last few, and we're starting to near the end of the command starters that are currently out, and this will give everyone a good sense of what the armies are, where they're at, and where they're gonna be going.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what's left? Cephalex and uh Crucible Guard?
SPEAKER_00:Uh well, taking a look, I think we have the Cursebound Cadre, we've got the Syphalax, we've got the Firetongue Warriors, and the Shock and Awe. We also have the Annihilator Cadre, which is the man of war starter for Codor. I'm not sure if we're gonna cover that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean the SKS kind of really tip their hand to that one. That is definitely more of the starter set that you should run with, but it could be something to expand out on.
SPEAKER_03:If you want like more lore on Signaring Cut or Let us know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. We could look into the lore for the Gravediggers, Storm Legion, we can start fleshing that out a little bit more if people are interested in that. We can absolutely make that happen. You know, feel free, drop us a line, let us know. But on that note, we've got old Umbre. On the outskirts of Umbre, sheltered within the foothills and surrounded by dense forests, lies Old Korska, once Kador's capital but now reduced to forsaken ruins. Even the most informed historians would say has long since been abandoned. They would be wrong, as this is where the followers of the old witch, Zavana Aga, lurk and readying themselves deep within. Old Korska fell to the Orgoth during the first invasion. The Old Witch gathers followers here to watch and reinforce folk tales of the horrors that reside there, and keep the curious away. Now, with Orgoth's return, the armies of the old Umbre march forth, wearing their armor covered with bones, furs, fetishes, and skin dubbed with war paint. Umbrayans bear modern weaponry and move with an ordered discipline that contrasts their adopted primal manner. When Orgoth arrives at the border they will be met with equal barbarity with blade, tooth, and claw.
SPEAKER_03:Turn into a werebear. Werebear? Werewolf? I guess.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know why you would turn into anything but a bear if you have the option. I mean Yana, what's the other caster's name? The guy that shapeshifts into a bear? Uh don't recall off the top of my head, but if you give me one moment I'll find out for you. Sure. I'll keep going, and then you let me know. Sounds good. Long ago, Kador was once divided into varied regions, each with its own culture and clans. Several were devoted to the devourer worm. Finally, a crusade went north to tame the wild northerners and show them that their god was powerless in the face of Menoth. This was accomplished by priest King Kardovic, symbolic bearer of the torch of the Menite of Geth. Mass conversions followed in the wake. Kardovic's legacy was one of unification of the people in what would become Kador as the kingdom of Kard.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so the uh captain we're thinking of is Kazimir Morozov, and he turns into a bear.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. He has like two hammers and then it or he has one big hammer and then it turns into two. Yeah. Ursa major and minor. That's wicked. Right. After Kardovic's death, a rift between the Umbrayans and the Cards naturally happened, resulting in the Umbrayans settled in the eastern border. Cards attempted at reunification by force which failed, and resulted in a mutual alliance that pooled their might and recognized the Umbraian lords as princes of the Kingdom of Umbra. For centuries, Umbray stood despite mounting political pressure and minor conflicts. This tension eventually led to open warfare. The catalyst was a drought and famine in card. The war raged for nearly a century in which Umbre was forced to swear fealty to the Kartic Empire. The people of Umbre remain resentful to this day. Now let's talk about one of Vangus's more favorite people. Zavanna Aga, the old witch of Kador. Yeah. Who doesn't like Baba Yaga? Right?
SPEAKER_02:I mean she's got walking houses. Yeah. That would have made a great colossal for Umbre.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, could be more. Yeah. No complaints about the Gorger. Gorgia's cool. But Baba Yaga in a hut that'd be nice.
SPEAKER_00:The old witch of Kador is a living myth whose existence lends credence to the wilde's claims of the superstitious. She defies all conventional logic and understanding and existing outside the laws of nature. Her intent regarding the fate of Kador is unclear, but has been her focus. It is said she met with the first emperor of Kard thousands of years ago. She has attempted to advise and guide dynasty after dynasty to be met with various levels of distrust and reverence, sometimes leading to success and others to ruin. Some say she is a spiritual embodiment of the motherland. Others say she is unnatural, unholy creature that steals children and devours souls. Both are probably accurate. I would agree. The old witch often appears as an old woman with long steel talons, hunched and adorned in rags and furs with an ancient staff that glows green as shifting screaming faces seem to writhe upon its surface. Her face is that of a cliched crone with one eye concealed under folded cloth. Swarms of crows accompany her every step as she moves with confident purpose despite her aged appearance. For centuries the old witch has divined and abducted infant girls predestined for great arcane aptitude. These daughters comprise the backbone of her cult, known as the children of Aga. Acting as augers, healers, and leaders in her absence, they protect the lands of Umbre. Eldest and most proven are granted unnaturally long life to continue their protecting. The children of Aga manipulate the fate of Kador from their warded groves. Bolstered by wardens of the witch's domain, they keep the ancient and hostile creatures asleep, while augmenting their mother's magic with their own. So there's your abducting children. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Presumably Galena and the uh Vine Lady. All of which makes sense. Are children of Aga. I don't think it explicitly says it, but that would be the implication. Olesia Resnikova, the mistress of thorns.
SPEAKER_00:That's the one that I've looked at, and I don't understand exactly how she plays. Well, we can talk about it later when we start going through the rules. Each prospective member is selected for their arcane prowess before it manifests, preventing the blackclad of the circle of Orboros from stealing the old witch's chosen progeny. The families are warned and their children sheltered during their wildlings manifestation. Afterwards the cult teaches the child to control their awakening and once achieved they are returned to their families. Children of Aga are occasionally sent as emissaries to perform various tasks amongst commoners and the surrounding villages. Most are distrustful due to their appearance. While the witches typically herald good fortune in the short term, any ensuing calamity the villagers face after their dealings with the witches is often determined as the price paid for their involvement. After the Infernal War, the vacant seat of the Zapeshi Vapeshi? God bless you. Vlad was slain in a brutal charge to buy civilians time to escape. This was directed by the old witch. The vacant seat was filled by his friend, Arlov Omirov.
SPEAKER_03:Bunch of these Kador names are tricky.
SPEAKER_00:They're very, very difficult.
SPEAKER_03:They're not all easy to say like Zapeshi.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Zapeshi.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know, I I haven't really had a whole lot of people correct me yet. I'm sure that's coming. I've heard so many people say Kador, Escarbakador. Yeah. I'm like, okay. I just leave it alone. I'm like, I don't know. I assume it's Kador. That's my logic is I think it's Kador. But nobody has said hider hair, so it's fine. Arloff was to hold the seat until Vlad's heir with Empress Vanra came of age. Arloff channeled his survivor's guilt into rebuilding and refining the estate and liegemen worthy of legends. Arlov recruited common folk, bringing in soldiers based on merit instead of family name. Over the next few years, lands under his influence experience a renaissance. As the child grew, Empress Venar set the stage to remove Arlof from his position and give rise to the imperial influence. Sure the Umbraians are thrilled about that. Oh they are absolutely. Arloth and all the native Umbrayans were removed from seats of power, and Arlov was nothing more than a symbol. Castle Zapeshi stands as an island of imperial influence surrounded by the resentful and embittered people who feared the day, their compromised lord takes his rightful seat. It's almost like he knew what was about to happen.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's alright. Sortia's gonna come back with her kid and unseat the other kid.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no. The old witch might not like that. I'm betting on Sortia over the old witch. Arloft returned to his village defeated and directionless. Not long after his return home was he visited by a bearded man that was ushered in by a swarm of crows, with the regal trappings of a high ranking Greylord, but mixed with the wardrobe of a shaman or faith healer. This man was Bodan Lenoi. He served for decades in the Greylord Covenant, but left before their disbanding. Bodan advised Arlof of a better way to serve his homeland. The old witch had not given up on Vlad's heir and would not allow for the kid to be used as a tool or a weapon for the political class. Arlof accepted the offer to join the old witch's cause and began rallying and training the Liegemen for the grand purpose they were born to fulfill. They moved at night and were aided by the Druids to relocate to under the belly of old Korska. The Liegemen's training had altered because of the integrated druidic practices. Bodin worked on laying the groundwork for people to rekindle their relationship with the Devour Worm and be ready if the Old Witch called. The infernal wars showed the Umbrayans that the faith and trust in Menoth was insufficient against the horrors that they faced. In six hundred twenty one AR, the staff of whispers stirred, and the old witch knew war was coming. There wouldn't be sufficient time to warn the others in power or convince them of the impending dangers. She knew she had to temper the worm's influence to provide longevity to those who used it. She developed a mixture that would give those loyal to her some of the worm's power, depending on a few factors, and if they were able to control the worm's embrace, they could return to their human form when the need passed. The hard part was finding a direct source of the worm's lifeblood to harvest. The old witch went to the wormwood to strike a deal. Wormwood is a tree that nourishes itself with blood and is the embodiment of predatory savagery. It awakened after a ritual where thousands were sacrificed to it. It has the ability to seize control of a human to use as its mouthpiece. It lives deep in the wilds alongside the circle or boros. The wormwood not only refused aid, but vowed to sow as much discord to ensure Kator's fall. The old witch was prepared and trapped the tree in a binding circle, and set her primevals to work, setting up the sentient tree for harvest. She had the tree tapped to collect the red sap. The binding circle also prevented the blackclad druids from seeing and hearing the tree, preventing a war for this treatment of the wormwood.
SPEAKER_03:I assume it's the sap that lets them turn into werewolves and were bears and all that jazz.
SPEAKER_00:It allows them to activate the devour worms' powers, and usually once they start embracing it, they turn primal, and then they usually have to be put down, or they just kill themselves off. And I believe the last time that this happened, Kador itself put down all of the umbrains that embraced it because there was no cure for it, and hence the war uh the witch is like, okay, this time I'm gonna figure out a way to kind of taper it back. And she figured it out on how to do that. Now for the command starter. We have Bodan Lenoy. Bodan was raised amongst the children of Aga to be a parasite upon the institutions of Kador. His arcane talents were groomed for infiltration of the Greylords and to find protectorate agents and supporters. After leaving the Greylords, he began to seed the minds of Umbrayans in preparation of the ill omened future. His supernatural charisma can deftly sway the minds and hearts, but the Umbrayans yearn to reclaim their old glory. Strix Strix is a sentry for the sacred grounds deep within the forbidden wood. It has watched over the children of Aga since the old witch abducted the first child. Empowered by the old witch's magic, it has granted keen senses and foresight allowing it to react quicker than any intruder. Veroni Veroni is Bodan's childhood familiar that has a strong connection and elevated beyond a mere crow. Veroni has lived more than several crow lifespans while having an unnatural display of understanding, making Veroni a perfect inconspicuous agent. Except for the fact that it's a giant crow. I was gonna say I was gonna say, I was like, when you look at the model, it is the size of a man.
SPEAKER_03:It's inconspicuous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I I wonder if it's just because then that way it's easier to tell what it is. But it it it is a gigantic bird. He has amassed a great flock to shield and attack while carrying trophies of their kills to nearby shamans for their use in blood magic. Faroni will often fly ahead with his flock to herald the arrival of Bodan. The Witchmarked Totem. It protects the realm of the old witch. Trespassers must turn back or be attacked by tendrils of thorns for trespassing. A caster bound with it can force it to manifest and ward away interlopers as an extension of their own prowess chosen of the witch. Of the wardens, three are selected to embody the different disciplines of witchcraft. Individually, imbued with some of the old witch's potency, they grow in size and power, usually deployed solo for each discipline. Now finding the three have aligned, they are deployed together to ensure success on the most important missions. Alright, so the rules start with Bodan. Off of the lore alone, he's got bird's eye, which while in this model's control range, models in the battle group can ignore cloud effects, forest terrain, and intervening models when determining line of sight.
SPEAKER_03:Makes sense. Got a bunch of crows hanging around him.
SPEAKER_00:Legitimately gonna say he's got a ton of birds that fly around for him, does all this. Under his weapons, he has the ranged attack. Crow. Prat a six, range of eight, rate of fire one. When this attack hits an enemy model, immediately after the attack is resolved, place this model base to base with the enemy hit. Super convenient. Move up, throw, you shapeshift into a crow, and now you're right there. Right. Uh his melee weapons don't really apply here, but he does have the spell murder of crows. Place a cloud effect template anywhere completely within the spellcaster's control range. An enemy model that enters or ends its activation in the AoE suffers an unboostable POW 8 damage roll.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I'm a little surprised that this guy doesn't have any sort of like cold attacks, given that he was a Greylord.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. For spell options, he doesn't. Uh Bodan might also be getting potentially a rework coming up here in the near future in January.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, but everything is getting tweaked, presumably.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because the spell rack's going away, but you know, there might be something that will be more fitting in for the Greylord aspect. Yeah. Uh do you have anything else to add on Bowdan? No, not really. Okay. Then we've got Strix. Strix has Admonition, which is once per round when an enemy model advances and ends its movement, or is placed within six inches of this model, this model can immediately advance up to three inches. Yep. So you can either get closer or run further away. And it also has future sight. This model can boost attack and damage rolls after rolling. That's very nifty. That is very big. And one of my big things I look at, it's how utilitarian they are. This is going to be very fury conscientious.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and he's got a high fury count too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's got a fury of four and a threshold of nine. And he's also got the combo pitch, which is great to stack up, but you're not going to be doing that. You're going to be using right out of the gate. You're going to do your brutal charge. Oh, absolutely. And then you'll use with a Mata 7, most likely you're not going to need to worry. POW 16. It's a little on the lighter side, especially for a heavy war beast, but you get it on the charge, you get plus two to your damage rolls, and then you can see exactly where you're going to be at.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:And then you can roll, not enough damage. Uh I'm going to boost it now. And then throw another dice. Or if it's enough, you're good to go. Same thing with the hitting. You can swing, miss, I'm pretty close, throw another one. Yeah. It's a pretty nice little boost there. And he's also got lightning strike, but again, that's not necessarily something that I would say is applicable to the lore. The one that actually has quite a bit bound in the lore. The bird is the bird. Is Vrone. Vroni actually has so much lore driven, it's absolutely crazy. So we'll just start from the top and go down. It's got Ancient Shroud. When a damage roll against this model exceeds its armor, it suffers one damage point instead of the total rolled. Which means no matter how many times he gets hit or how hard the hit is, it's only going to take one damage. That falls in line with the swarm of birds. So no matter what, you're going to kill a bird, but it's a swarm of them, so they're going to keep hanging out. And it's got five life, which means it can take five lethal hits and still hang out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's a menace. Um I entirely plan to run this thing next to a uh primeval and then just keep on dumping corpse tokens onto it.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's my theory for Lord of the Hunt. That's my theory on a lot of different things. So this bird's gonna be great. Yeah. It's got body snatcher slash grave robber. This model can gain corpse tokens while an enemy living or undead model is destroyed within 10 inches of this model. This model gains the destroyed model's corpse token. When a friendly living model is destroyed by a continuous effect, an enemy attack or collateral damage from an enemy attack while within 10 inches of this model, this model gains the destroyed model's corpse token. This model can have up to five corpse tokens at any time. This model can spend corpse tokens for the following Death Feast. During its activation, this model can spend corpse tokens to remove D3 damage points for each token spent. Yeah. So yeah, it this bird is gonna be super hard to kill. You're gonna have to go full commit to kill this bird. You're gonna have to do five attacks and successfully wound it five times to take it out. And to be fair, hitting it is gonna be hard. Wounding it is really easy. Yeah. It's not that hard to hit. No, but it's defense 14.
SPEAKER_03:Right, which usually means entirely doable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but for the most part, you're looking at standard people, you're looking at swinging upwards as compared to level or downwards. Yeah. Cause you're thinking most things are melee six, rat six. You can push up into seven, you can find some that are higher, but for the most part, you're looking at around six, maybe seven. So you're looking at an average or above average roll. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Nah, you're probably gonna have to commit a couple of units to knocking him out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You gotta go full commit to take this bird out, and then if you don't, he's just gonna heal up. Yep. And then he's also got grave secrets. If this model is in its leader's control range during the control phase, its leader can spend a corpse token on this model to upkeep one spell for each token spent. Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that. I mean It's very pricey for an upkeep. But again, this falls as Bodan's familiar, so that also tracks that there's that link. It has I found one, range three, target friendly faction model with a body snatcher special rule. If the model is in range and does not have any corpse tokens, it gains one corpse token. A model can only be targeted by I found one once per turn. So even if things don't die, you can still gain corpse tokens. Yep. It takes your action, but I'm entirely okay with that. Uh yeah, and then the other part that is also really good, special delivery. Once per turn at any time during its activation, this model can remove any number of corpse tokens and place them on a friendly model that can gain corpse tokens within five inches of it. You have the bird fly around and just drop corpses to people, which again falls in line with its lore.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I fully intend to just keep this thing hovering around a primeval. Because with one token, the primeval gets to uh charge without being forced. With three tokens, when the model has tokens, it its weapons gain grievous wounds. And if it has five tokens, it gains plus two to damage rolls.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's not gonna be a good day for Chum. If you insist. Yeah, I do insist. That's a bad day for Chum. But to go along with that, the bird is gonna be very fast. As a speed of nine and reposition five.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that bird is flying around 14 inches a turn. Super gross. Would agree. Granted, you're only gonna go nine, but then you get close, and then you could swing around and then drop back. But still, 14 inches of total movement, that's that's good. Then we've got the witchmark totem, which this one it's got a couple things. As the arcane manifestation, once per turn at any time during its activation, place this model anywhere completely within 10 inches of its current location. That allows for it to be spawned by whoever's controlling it to protect the area that they're in. Right. And then you've also got the Briar Thicket. An enemy model without flight entering or ending its activation within two inches of this model suffers a POW 10 damage roll. Warrior models damaged by this roll become knocked down. So that's really good.
SPEAKER_03:That's nice. I wouldn't say it's really good. Um anything where it revolves around them entering or ending an activation is kind of meh, in my opinion, because it's easy enough to work around. However, the curse part of things is great.
SPEAKER_00:The minus one armor to things within five inches?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because that just happens always.
SPEAKER_00:If you don't want to get hit. But even then, it I mean, let's be fair, unless if you're a unit, it's not gonna be nothing to worry about. It's a power ten damage roll.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like any jack, any sort of heavier war beast is gonna just walk right through it and it's gonna be fine. But units are gonna get suffered by that a lot more.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I think the Briar Thicket part of things is pretty meh. I think cursed is amazing. And it is the sole reason why I plan on taking the totem.
SPEAKER_00:I I think it has a lot of good utilitarian to it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I I think it has a lot of good benefits to it, especially for its low point cost. Yeah. I'm just wondering about that now because it says entering.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but the totem is entering, not the other models.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, I understand that. That's what I'm saying is if you drop them on it, or you drop it like right outside of it, they either have to go through it and they enter it, or they have to go around it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you either are forced to take that hit or just skirt around it. Right. But with unit movement, I mean, it's fine. You're not gonna have to worry about that. Oh, that's a shame.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I don't think Briar Thicket is a great rule.
SPEAKER_00:I think nothing wrong with it, but I think it's useful against like your we were talking about earlier, like light infantry, those kinds of things. But if you're running it, you're never gonna drop it right next to a bigger beast. No. Well, unless you're using it for the cursed. Right. But even then, five inches away, it can be well without. Yeah, I don't know. I I've gotta put it on the board and kind of feel it out and see how it plays.
SPEAKER_03:I fully intend to use it alongside Galena's prey ability and just wreck things.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Have it, yeah, get knocked down in armor a little bit more and then just keep shooting. And we have the chosen of the witch coven. The only thing that I really found that kind of fit was the sacred ward. When you look at what they are and what their representative schools of magic do, you look at Dawn, Dawn is life and creation, and they have blind, which I was like, well, that doesn't really fit.
SPEAKER_03:And then but it's a super good ability. It is. And the fact that it always happens, it's not tied to like a critical hit or anything.
SPEAKER_00:Right, it just hits.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Glorious.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Again, not it's just lore-based. And this is this is one of my things, is that I'm great with their abilities. I love what they do, but it doesn't necessarily fit their lore. And then you go into zenith. Zenith, the magic school, is focused on weather and security, and then you have a solar blade.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It makes fire. Right, which okay, so zenith, highest point in the sky, so the sun. Alright. I guess that I I could run with that one, I guess, a little bit. But the dawn, I I don't necessarily get. Maybe I can have it explained to me. Somebody wants to explain it, sure. Then we have Nightfall, which this one has stealth, which that one kind of confused me because none of the other ones do. So this guy's gonna be hanging out for quite a while. But he likes to hang out in the dark, so that's fine. Right. And night has death and decay, which it has Edge of Darkness, but then it's also got Critical Decapitation. Alright, that one I get. Yeah. Out of the three, the only one that I felt truly That I felt like it fit was Nightfall.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:As far as lore base goes. Now, if other people have a better way of either explaining it or kind of showing me a different way on it, I'm about that. I'm just a little more confused on it, I guess. I just don't see it.
unknown:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:It's a think back to Lord of the Rings with Dawn. When Gandalf rides over the mountain? Yeah. And he casts a spell that blinds everybody? Yep. Okay. I mean, hey, that could be their take on it. And that could be where I'm just not drawing the connection. But again, the school of magic though. To the east. Right. But again, it it's life and creation. And then you've got blind. So again, I'm like, mmm. I could see Zenith having that. But if and and I I don't know. I I'm I'm struggling with this one. I mean, I'm sure I could figure out ways to justify and come up with some sort of system to make it line up. But on the immediacy of it, they're they're a good unit. I like the unit. Oh yeah. But from a lore standpoint, I struggle with it.
SPEAKER_03:I would have liked if decapitation was just decapitation not critical.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, of course. But what is that? Armor piercing?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Reduce the armor and excessive damage is doubled.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. What's your take on some of these guys?
SPEAKER_03:Well, out of the chosen, I'm most excited about Dawn because I think that's going to work out best alongside Galena. Because she's all about selecting a prey target and then baiting the line and sicking a bunch of war beasts to just murder that thing to death. The other two, they're they're fine. I'm not particularly excited about them, but they have their purpose, I suppose. They get to die first.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So if knight dies before dawn, that's a problem. Oh so? It has stealth. Yeah. If you're fully committing into it, I would assume that they're either getting shot or there's something else going on.
SPEAKER_03:Zenith is really good at killing like medium delight infantry again.
SPEAKER_00:The fire continuous effect? Yeah. And death is definitely going to do damage on your heavier targets. Maybe. If you would get lucky.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it's one power 15 attack, right? Yeah. It's got a range of two mat seven. Although they all do have divine inspiration, so that helps a bit. Right. I wish with divine inspiration you got to choose which dice you discarded, not just necessarily the lowest, because it would up the odds of getting the critical.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I could see that. But that's in most cases that you it wouldn't be a problem, but since you're farming for a critical, that could become a problem.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Could be. Oh, but what was that? In one of our games we were we were doing that, and then we had, was it a five-five and a six? And somebody did lose out on a critical because of that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Other than that, the only like model I've really taken a good look at is Galena, because that's what I plan on using as the caster. Mm-hmm. She just wants to shoot things a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think you're gonna use any uh liegeman hunters in yours? Liegeman hunters. They're the uh the heavy rifle people?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Because she does confer benefits to other things shooting.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So they've also got headshot, which is really nice. Yeah. Because that eliminates the tough rolls and just destroys the other models. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I would definitely say I plan on using those. Um the stuff I have, I got two battlegroups and then the command starter. And I for sure plan on using the Voronoi and the Totem out of the Command Starter. And I'll probably mess around with Strix at some point, but I'm really sold on the prime evils. The Ferals are interesting. I'm not convinced they're good, because they have a super low threshold. It's six.
SPEAKER_00:Still better than chums. Yes. Not by much, but still. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The ferals are going to frenzy a lot. But the primeval's ability to use the corpse tokens, plus one of their heads lets them remove fury from either themselves or another model within relatively close distance to them. I think it's the stag. Yeah. But the stag on the primeval, you can remove one fury point from a friendly faction war beast within one inch. So probably itself, which still handy, because it has a relatively high fury and uh lets you reave that much more fury off of a feral and keep it from going berserk.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Cause you can always leave one on yourself and let it naturally come off. Yeah. But that head also gives you undergrowth, which is also really good too. While within five inches of the spellcaster enemy models treat open terrain as rough terrain and suffer mice to defense. Yeah. It's a little pricey. Yeah, for cost of two. But it lasts for a round.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. There's lots and lots of ways to make sure Galena can murder whatever her prey is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's she's a pretty nifty caster.
SPEAKER_03:Now the other one, because And she's highly mobile, which is awesome. Oh yeah, she's got dodge. Yeah. Dodge, speed seven. Her feet lets her move around.
SPEAKER_00:Pathfinder unstoppable. And she's got Ro oh god, go to ground, yeah. Now, here's my question, because we were talking about this person earlier. Reznikova? Yeah, Resnakova. Mistress of Thorns. I've I've looked her over because I've been I've been looking at the different casters. She has the extreme model, which I think is pretty interesting looking.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I would say out of the uh Umbre Extreme Models, she probably has the best.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I like the model. And I but I've been sitting here trying to look at her and I'm trying to get a feel for how she plays out. What is she like? Hope there's a lot of woods on the table? Uh yeah. I'm like, that's the only way I see her kind of I don't want to say being good, but I don't necessarily understand. Her control is fourteen, so she has grasping briars, which it affects people in her control range. Yep. And then she can start punching through the ground with a POW 14 attack, which is really good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And when she kills the model, she makes a little tiny forest.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So. Even if there aren't a bunch of forests to start out with, she can make them.
SPEAKER_00:But that's also relying a lot on her spending a lot but she's only got rate of fire one. She's only doing that once per turn.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I would be inclined to use her with a few primevals with the spears.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Because I think she very much just wants her war beast hanging out in the forest and shooting at things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, kind of doing like the stealth ambush style attacks. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can see that. We've kind of pivoted away from our normal just doing the command starter. We're actually expanding a little bit further into it. But and this is this is definitely one that I've been very intrigued about, and it's one that I've been very curious about. I have a coworker who's really into them, and I actually just said a couple episodes ago, I've bet I said that I had a coworker who was trying to figure it out, and I needed to get somebody on here to kind of discuss old Umbre more in depth on how they work and how they play. And you and I haven't gotten them on the table yet. No. But hopefully in two weeks. Yeah, so I'll have to figure that out, but we'll see. I've been looking at a lot of the other ones, and I've been I've even talked with people, and people have actually said they're like, Yeah, I haven't really used Bodan a whole lot. Bodan has Arc 8, control 16. Yeah. So he can reach real far out. And when he does show up, he could do a lot of damage. I mean, his jeweled dagger, which is only POW 10, I mean, not great, but you can boost it and you can trade life, and you can gain additional dice by sacrificing a hit point, and he's got 16 hit points. Yeah. So if he dives and doesn't do anything other than using his life to fully boost the attack, he's probably he has a pretty good chance, and he could essentially do nine attacks in a turn. Well, technically ten. Because he can hit somebody with his cursed staff, which I mean you would use that one first to hopefully drop down whatever they've got on them, and then you go into the jeweled. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I haven't looked at Bodan too much. I think in order to be sold on him, I would have to really look through his spell rack, which honestly seems like a waste since it's about to go bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I mean I've I've looked at the rack, and the rack right now is okay. It's not anything great to or to write home about. But for a cost of four, friendly faction models gain plus two to attack and damage rolls against enemy models while the enemy models are within ten inches of the spellcaster, last for a turn. So I mean, I don't know. He's also got befuddle.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think in order to really get the best out of Bowden, especially if you're just playing with the command starter, you would need to pick good spells out of the rack that are upkeep.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, but he does have befuddle. On a hit, you can immediately take control, an advanced target enemy non-leader model, which that will allow you to take over like a warjack or something else. Yeah, but that's only moving it three inches. But that's still moving it out of the way, opening it up. Yeah. It's not bad, but getting something expensive for moving something. Yeah. But if that's that two inches uh that three inches allows you to open up a pathway, I mean that could be worth it. Yeah. I don't know. It it's a good little utility spell, but yeah, for two. I mean, but when you have eight arc. Oh try running Bodon with like three ferals could be great. Yeah. They all lose their mind and all just start attacking everywhere. Uh he's got the arc to pull them all. Yeah, he does. He can reach out and make sure. But one thing we didn't do any lore on, but I'm super excited about is the gorger. The gorger. The fact that it's got three different heads, multiple different arms, and it knocks down all models. Or I should say all enemy models within two inches of the model hit. Yeah. And he's got two of them. Fury of four, threshold of ten. The carnivorous head is definitely good. Oh, especially with the rage, but that's half of its fury. Crested head's pretty good. Yeah, what do you like about it? I'm not really seeing it to be honest. I like the fact that it has bone working. When a model within eight inches of this model makes an attack or damage roll, this model can spend a corpse token to cause that model to re-roll the roll. Each roll can be re-rolled only once due to bone working. Okay. And then it's also got uh unearthly roar, which it has powerful attack and forced reload. So for a spray eight, POW 13, it has forced reload and powerful attack. So you spend one focus, and then you get boosted attack and damage rolls on a spray attack.
SPEAKER_03:Right. But realistically, we're probably looking at a considerably shorter spray attack very soon.
SPEAKER_00:It's probably gonna be four to six inches. It might be. But that's still something as of right now, looking at it. That's pretty good. God. You get into a decent line, that's gonna be a real bad day. Wraith Bane making all of its attacks. Oh, they're all already magical, but they're not blessed. Yeah, blessed is super handy. Yeah, because you start cutting through all their magical defenses and everything else. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Fair enough.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which I again will take that any day of the week to make sure that you're cutting through any of the extra boosts that's already on it. But again, that it could be a little expensive. You know, a cost of two, but if you keep your caster nearby, your caster can cast it on to Gorger because it has a range of six. Right. And your caster can cast its anime on it. So that's something also to keep in mind while you're looking at.
SPEAKER_03:Are you gonna run Bodon with two gorgers?
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_03:No? No. Shameful.
SPEAKER_00:Bodon is going to run a gorger to Lords of the Hunt and the Command Starter at least. That's at the very start. What do you think about the Cato Spine Tales, which I really like the play on words there, or the Primal Club? What would be your pick there? Probably the Primal Club. You want the extra three damage?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. If I'm sending a gorger after something, it's going to be to mess up a heavy or a caster. I'm not gonna send it after like a unit.
SPEAKER_00:The extra damage die would be good, but again, you gotta be fighting other huge models. Yeah. I'm just looking at the the cat of spine tails. POW 18, Range 3, AoE 2, POW 10. Yeah. I mean, I kind of like that a little too much. Uh yeah, it'll mess up any kind of infantry, but Or anything with a shield. Yeah. Or trying to hide from something like it it's coming around because it's got the flail upgrade. I don't know. I'm looking at them both like I like both. But I I I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I just don't feel like I would send a gorger after infantry.
SPEAKER_00:No, but if all of a sudden you get like the typical tactic would be throw cheap infantry in front of it to slow it down to stop it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And when you only have those it's definitely three dead models. Because if you hit any sort of infantry, they're dead. You start with the hands and then everything else is dead. Especially at that level. Alright. Boulder or Hornet's Nest?
SPEAKER_03:Uh Boulder is power sixteen. Range twelve. It's got the huge base model bonus. But it has weight of stone. Model is damaged by this weapon suffers minus three speed and defense for one round. That's pretty spectacular.
SPEAKER_00:It is. What does the Hornet's Nest do for you? Buzzing Swarm while within two inches of this model, models gain concealment. Additionally, while within two inches of this model, enemy models suffer minus two to attack rolls.
SPEAKER_03:Range 12, AoE 3, POW 12, what is the defense on a Gorger? Nine? Alright. It's got some utility.
SPEAKER_00:For the concealment? Yeah, a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then it's also got Stinging Swarm on a direct hit, centered 3-inch cloud model effect template on the model directly hit. This template remains in play for one round. Models that enter or end their activation suffer a POW 10 damage roll. Poison gain additional die on this weapon's damage rolls against living models. Then also weaken a living model hit by this weapon suffers minus two defense and minus two to its melee attack damage rolls for one round. Yeah. Um I'm gonna say go with the Hornet's Nest. That was kind of where I was going. If I knew I was going up against a lot of like bigger, stompier things, I would probably go with or things that I know had higher armor. I would go with the boulder. But if I'm not really certain, I think I'm gonna go with the Hornet's Nest.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because of the ability to gain the concealment to make him a little bit more survivable with the minus two to attack rolls.
SPEAKER_03:Plus, it's gonna eat up those infantry screens that they're gonna put in front of their juicy targets. Right. That you can then bash in with the club.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like legitimately, this is like the good little counter for the club. Or if you want to go as this as like a lawnmower, you take the cadow spines and the hornet's nest. Yeah. And it's just blowing away all sorts of stuff.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. I would definitely take the club though. Because I'm not convinced the claws are enough to get the job done on their own.
SPEAKER_00:I would agree. I don't necessarily think that the claws, your standard two claws, are gonna do it. I think between your head attack, if you go with the Tust one, you get the indomitable with that, range two POW twenty, so that will offset. Then you go with the caddo spines. I don't know. There there's a lot to play around here with. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Fortunately, all these things take magnets.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So find out. I haven't even looked at are they the same size? I doubt it. I was gonna say I'm like, I have so many different sized magnets.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, the magnets vary in size for all the models to begin with.
SPEAKER_01:It's true.
SPEAKER_03:The primeval takes wee little tiny ones.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's kind of like the chickens. The raptors.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they take small ones too. And then some of the light war beasts and heavy war beasts use different sizes, but it all depends on what which one it is. So yeah, you're using like at least three different size magnets. Alright. Well I think we definitely dove in. Pretty far into Umbre today. A little bit. Yeah. But it was fun. Okay. I was gonna say it was fun. Yeah. Definitely something I've learned a lot today. Hopefully our listeners will also have gained a fair bit of knowledge on it.
SPEAKER_03:Get a whole bunch of listeners playing Umbre.
SPEAKER_00:One could only hope.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I don't know. I thought for sure that my mark four interest would be Wintercore, but this is so much more interesting.
SPEAKER_00:I still remember when we were watching the Adepticon and I get the call the next day, and you're like, hey, did you see the the Kador subfaction that's coming out? And I was like, no. And you're like, well, it's probably right up your alley because I'm notorious for not diving into Kador at all, really. In previous editions, I just had no interest in them. It just wasn't my thing. But then he I start getting pictures on my phone of the models that they were showing sneak peeks to. And he's like, You're gonna want to look at these. And I was like, okay, this this is gonna be a thing. Who doesn't want Strix the Owl Bat? I dude, all I'm gonna say is we might need to 3D print a couple of those new epic ones. With the like expanded wings.
SPEAKER_03:Uh he's not available for 3D print.
SPEAKER_00:He's is he gonna be a purchase?
SPEAKER_03:He was during lock and load. Now he's just gone.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I wonder if he's gonna come out later.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah, if Steamforge decides to throw him up on the uh my mini factory, definitely print that one.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I hope so. Cause I really like that model and I know a couple people who do. So definitely something to look at in the future.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's all I got. You got anything for me?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I could probably think of something, but we can call it.
SPEAKER_00:That's fair. It's also a little bit late. A little bit. Yep. On that note, everybody, have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. Bye.
