He Brought A Bazooka To A Troll Fight And Still Forgot The Objectives

A chicken jack shouldn’t decide a heavyweight brawl—but today it did, and that surprise set the tone for a fast, funny, and insight-packed round table session. I sit down with Angus and Chris to relive a 50-point Mark IV clash, admit we forgot objectives on a four-by-six battlefield, and extract the real lessons: how the new unit movement reshapes threat ranges, why precise timing turns “safe” distances into traps, and what it takes to keep games welcoming for returning and brand-new players.

We zoom out from the table to the scene. Chris walks through running Marvel Crisis Protocol events and what local stores are doing with Warmachine formats.  A listener review from someone returning after Mark II sparks a broader look at why the game’s lore and community matter: the best experiences happen when models, stories, and mechanics click. That’s where faction chatter lands—Kithguard anticipation and Cryx efficiency.

Hobby time gets practical. We lay out time-saving techniques that actually work: makeup sponges for textured layers, speed paints for leather and fur, acrylic markers for rivets and edge highlights, and the case for switching from rattle cans to an airbrush to prime year-round. Transport and storage come under the microscope too—magnets over foam for dynamic sculpts, fewer broken bits, faster setup. We even trade assembly war stories and explain why better instructions and more plastic kits are a quiet revolution. Add the promise of a consolidated rulebook with maps and timelines, plus improving event streams, and the future looks bright.

If you love sharp gameplay, strong hobby advice, and a community that laughs through the misplays, you’ll feel at home here. Hit play, then tell us your MVP model and one tip that helped you teach a new player. If this episode helped or made you smile, subscribe, share it with a friend at your local store, and leave a review so more players can find the show.

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Chapters

• 0:50 Meet The Crew And Today’s Game
• 3:28 First 50-Point Mark IV Lessons
• 10:17 Community Shoutouts And A Big Review
• 12:39 Chris’s Hobby Origin Story
• 15:04 Tournaments, Formats, And Prime Vs Unlimited
• 19:55 Old Friends, GW Days, And Painting Zen
• 25:35 Social Platforms And Building Community Spaces
• 28:01 Top Mark IV Factions And New Releases
• 33:42 Kane, Chum, And Caster Favorites
• 42:13 Movement Rules, Threat Ranges, And “Chickens”
• 48:21 Hades, Souls, And Learning New Kits
• 54:08 Hobby Techniques: Sponges, Speed Paints, Markers
• 1:01:06 Advice For New Hobbyists
• 1:08:36 Plastics, Build Quality, And Model Assembly War Stories
• 1:17:16 Storage: Magnets Vs Foam
• 1:19:03 Other Games On Our Radar
• 1:23:12 Hopes For War Machine’s Future

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:51

Hey there listeners, NJT here, bringing you fresh perspectives on all things war machine and building the community we surround ourselves with. Today, we're going to be doing things in a little bit different of a format. I've got Angus here with me today, and I've also got another guest. We have Chris here, and he's part of our local gaming group. How's it going, Chris? Fantastic. Angus, how are you? Doing well. Celebrating a mighty Crix victory. Yes, we did. Crix did come out on top. How'd that feel, Chris? How'd that feel getting stomped out by the undead? I love it. Well, to be fair, I was gonna win either. I was gonna say either way. I was gonna win because on the anti-Crick side, I was over there with Cygnar, and then I was also playing on the opposing side with Crix. I had the game one in the bag. I think it was a scam. A little bit. But that's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:48

That's all right. And we failed to play with objectives once again.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52

Yes, we did. We realized that after we were all set up and ready to go, and then when we were like, hey, where's the objectives? We realized that we're playing on a four by six table, and one of our teammates said, Well, it's only designed to be on a four by four table, so we'd have to quickly figure that out. And we looked at the time and said, Well, we'll just do that next time and probably shrink down the game size a little bit. But we added cards. Yes, we did. I was gonna say you didn't or John, but uh did you, Angus? No. No. So the only ones who did was uh me and Paul.

SPEAKER_01: 2:26

So Paul and I were I was aware of my cards though. I just didn't have the opportunity to use them. Okay. He killed me before he had to.

SPEAKER_00: 2:34

Exactly. I was gonna say, I was the Mortonabra feed is strong. She didn't even need it though. True, I didn't need it. I did use it though.

SPEAKER_01: 2:44

Did you what'd you bring back? Uh the malefactor, I think is what it's called. Okay. Those little chickens what killed it, so Oh so the the chicken jack. Yeah. The uh gunship raptor killed Thagosh? What the Thagrosh? Thagrosh. Yeah, that's anything.

SPEAKER_00: 3:04

From Legions of Everblight? Legions of Everblight. Yeah, it's the one with the Anthanc or the Heartstone. Sounds right. Yeah. He just constantly generates all of his fury back, which I think is ridiculous. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_01: 3:21

It's little gunship raptors. They're nifty. Now I know I need to kill that thing sooner. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:28

I need to get more gunship raptors. But this was this was also one of the first 50-point games uh that you guys have played. This is, I guess I would say my second or third at this point. Yeah, I think it was our first.

SPEAKER_03: 3:43

I was gonna say edition.

SPEAKER_00: 3:45

Yeah. Oh yeah, the new stuff. I was gonna say definitely in fourth edition, this is or Mark IV, this has been the newer kind of push for our gaming club. I did bring up while we were talking, I am gonna be bringing Paul on eventually. So he will be another guest that we'll be bringing on. Paul is definitely our I would say resident rule expert. He definitely knows he knows the rules the best out of all of us. Wouldn't we? I I am catching up. I am getting there.

SPEAKER_01: 4:15

I would say Paul knows the rules better than the rest of us can buy.

SPEAKER_00: 4:18

Yeah, he is he's very, very good at the rules. But he is fuzzy on the Mark IV models. But if it's previous to Mark IV, he can tell you all sorts of stuff about all the other models, which is crazy. My knowledge is largely based on the lore that we've been doing, looking at those models, and as I've been diving into Mark IV, I've been learning a lot more. Some of these people, with their lore knowledge and the vast, I'll say intimacy that they have with this game is out of sight.

SPEAKER_03: 4:52

It is so good. I know brine bloods from fighting against them, and now I know kind of what the new crooks do. But that's about it for the new stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 5:05

Well, I was gonna say, I'm like, you know troll bloods really well. Old troll bloods. Right, that's what I'm saying. But Kith Guard's coming. That's soon enough. I I agree. I absolutely agree. Yeah, that's in February. They will fit in well with my jungle trolls. Swinging it over real quick, we'll possibly come back to our game that we had today. We did receive a new review on Apple Podcast, and it's from New Gundam 63, and it says, a great listen, five stars. Tony and Joe deliver a solid family-friendly show, and this podcast has been enjoyable to listen to and refamiliarize myself with the games as I came back for the first time since Mark II. I'm only a few episodes in so far, looking forward to hearing if someone manages to take down Chum. Well, thanks, New Gundam. Definitely appreciate the review and the fact that you're actually enjoying it. The answer is yes, it took a couple months, but he was brought down by Chris here. And also, uh, I would say since we since I've been keeping track, we'll say he's died twice. Because I forgot about the first time, so he has fallen now twice. And also, you'll be able to hear as you progress through these episodes, you'll definitely hear that we've been bringing on other people. And also, uh, Joe is taking a temporary hiatus, and we look forward to having him back when he is ready to come back. But tell us a little bit about your hobbies. Like, what has brought you into tabletop war gaming, Chris?

SPEAKER_03: 6:43

So back probably 2000-ish, was bumming around Gurney Mills. They had the games workshop in there, and we went in there, checked it out. Like, oh, this is cool. Did a few demo games, but we didn't really do anything. But then I was watching, what was it? The Mummy Returns. It's like the Army of Anubis is fighting the Magi and stuff. Yeah. I'm thinking back, like, well, they had the Christmas catalog out from Games Workshop that I was like reading at the time. I'm like, oh man, I could do this with that. Kind of like spark my thing. Like, oh, I should start doing this because I can kind of do big battles and stuff. And then it kind of went from there. We got the Lord of the Rings game. I think I got the Mordheim game. And I think I started with probably 40k. And then it's just kind of grown from there to lots and lots of other games.

SPEAKER_01: 7:42

What are your favorite games to play right now?

SPEAKER_03: 7:44

Right now, War Machine and then Marvel Crisis Protocol is my two main games that I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00: 7:52

You run tournaments for MCP, right? We do. There you go. Where do you play those at?

SPEAKER_03: 7:58

So I actually run well co-run a Marvel Crisis Protocol tournament down in a game shop in Mount Prospect. We do it the second Saturdays of the month. And actually this month they're running a war machine tournament the same day. So both those are going to be going on back there. So I'm going to be doing the Marvel tournament and kind of scoping out what's going on with the war machine stuff at the same time.

SPEAKER_00: 8:21

That's awesome. I'm definitely going to have to see about eventually making my way down there on a weekend that I actually have off. For the war machine, do they do 100 points?

SPEAKER_03: 8:34

The last time we were down there that they were playing, it was a hundred-point steamroller. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:41

Steamrollers are usually, I want to say about a hundred points. Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 8:45

And do they do prime or unlimited? When I the one guy I was talking to said prime, so I'm going to assume that's all of it's prime. I don't know. I can only assume this one's going to be prime too. But I don't know for certain.

SPEAKER_00: 8:59

Well, we'll definitely touch base again and see about finding out what the results of that were. And depending on if they're on long shanks or something else, we can try to drop in and see what it looks like.

SPEAKER_03: 9:09

Fairly confident they're on long shanks too. Okay. I'll double check.

SPEAKER_00: 9:14

Sounds good. Bringing this out there, Angus and I have kind of alluded to our time in the past of spending, you know, excessive amounts of time at Buffalo Wild Wings, hanging out. You were there for that, weren't you? Almost every night. There you go. Angus and Chris and I have definitely spent the better part of, oh gosh, probably 20 years at this point, you know, being friends, hanging out, doing all sorts of stuff. And definitely this hobby is what kind of brought us all together. Chris and I actually competed for a job at Games Workshop. Oh, that's right. We did, didn't we? Yes, we did. I squeaked that one out. And I think I loved it. Yeah. No. It was because I dressed up as a dwarf for the release of Skull Pass. I think that's what that's what sealed the deal. And I can't argue with that. Yeah, came in wearing chainmail, a beard, because Lord knows I can't grow one. So I had to have a fake one on. I had an axe and all sorts of stuff. Sold it. I wouldn't want it if I made Kool-Aid though. Yeah. Oh, that's one thing I can't do. Chef for, oh gosh, almost 20 years and uh can't make hash browns or Kool-Aid, but everything else I can do. What about box cake? Yeah, I can do that. Okay. Yeah. Box cake brownies out of a box. Yeah, that's all fine. I can make it from scratch too, and it's fine, but I don't know. Dolphin's better than box cake. It is delicious. Brock there is a box brownie that I used to really enjoy. But anyways, back to the kind of the hobby that all brought us together. What would be your favorite part of the hobby? And this is to both of you.

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

Oh, definitely building. Then followed by painting.

SPEAKER_03: 11:05

I was like playing with the people that I play with. And well, like we've kind of alluded to, if it wasn't for like the playing, I never would have met either of you two. Because it just had me a chance meeting at, well, is that the same games workshop in Liberteville? And we just played one time and well, here we are, what, 21 years later. Right. Right. Still playing. And then I mean, I was one of those ones that I just throw gray stuff on the field. And I was like, I just want to fight. And now it's gotten to a point where I don't put things on the field unless there's paint on it. My my hobby has kind of evolved since then. I was going to say, you do a lot of painting. I do a lot of painting. That's kind of my my zen, my piece when I need to just like relax and just calm paint. You also have a little bit of Facebook group for that too, don't you? I do have a Facebook group for it. What's that? It's called Science of Olympus. That's kind of where I just put all my my painting and my hobbying stuff on there. It's evolved over time, but it's kind of like right now. It's just kind of my showcase for painting. Works in progress and the like. Yep. All that stuff. And pretty much only on Facebook right now. Yeah. I'm too old to do all the Instagram, Snapchats, and stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 12:27

I am I am linked up on Facebook and Instagram, but I will definitely tell you I don't know how it works. So I I just focus on Facebook and I've evolved into Reddit.

SPEAKER_03: 12:42

I've been kind of doing some Discordy stuff lately, but that's about as much my tech savvy goes.

SPEAKER_00: 12:48

Not a fan of the Discords. Discord has a lot of nice benefits, especially for a community aspect and like bringing everybody together and the community can essentially evolve itself. But as far as running it goes and starting one up, I don't know. Actually, I was talking with a listener and they said having a Discord would be great for NJT and they really want to, you know, would like to see it. And I was like, well, I don't know how it works. I had one for a DD group, but I didn't even start it or run it. I was just on it. I don't know how they work either. I just type in it. Yeah. Uh I'm in a group that is further north into Wisconsin. And they're like, oh, jump into our Discord. Mike, how do you do that? Follow this email.

SPEAKER_03: 13:35

Yeah, the crazy thing is like all these like link invites and stuff, and then they like expire on you, so you have to go find a new one, or you have to find somebody that's in it to invite you to it.

SPEAKER_00: 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 13:43

But like I'm in it and I don't know how to invite somebody else to it.

SPEAKER_00: 13:46

So it's like Yeah, that's that's that was legitimately they're like, oh, just search us up, Mike. How do you do that? And she she was like, here, I'm just gonna send you an email. I was like, send it to NJT so we all can drop in. And it worked out. Out of the Mark IV armies, which ones would you say would be your favorite? Let's go top three. And I'll even throw in Prime Legacy.

SPEAKER_03: 14:14

Playing as or playing against or any of the above? Any of the above. Well, I mean, I'm a sucker for troll bloods, because that's what I play. And then probably a Legion of Everblight, because I like the Stag Rush guy. And after that, probably I'll say Kith guard because I'm looking forward to them the most.

SPEAKER_00: 14:36

Okay. So the range shooty trolls. I mean, the one model where he's got like the dual bowie knives and the turrets on his back, that looks really good. Yeah. I support that. I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 14:50

Uh well, Crick's for sure. The Necrofactorium. I enjoyed playing that today. I'm on the fence on Khidora Winter Guard. I really like the Yana model. I don't have Yana, so I can't say if I like playing with them or not. And then I like Scorn. Whatever Scorn option there is for Prime Legacy. There for that.

SPEAKER_00: 15:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 15:13

Is Yana that bear rider?

SPEAKER_00: 15:15

Yes it is. Well, that will be when I place the next order, which probably won't be too long from now. Perfect.

unknown: 15:25

Perfect.

SPEAKER_03: 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:26

What army is the guy that rides the rabbit in? The rabbit guy you're talking about, he's actually in Old Umbre and Shadow Flame Shard. It's Zacchaeus. The Winter's Chill. That's um yeah, that's the guy. Now, my bigger question is when you sit there and you look at what he's got, he's got, you know, the frost scythe and he's got bite. Is he biting or is it the giant rabbit he's writing that's biting? It's the rabbit. Maybe it's both. I was gonna say, why not both? No. But it does have critical freeze. And the rabbit doesn't look like it's frost.

SPEAKER_03: 16:04

It's definitely the guy then.

SPEAKER_00: 16:05

Yeah. I was gonna say, it doesn't look like he's I don't know. Frost scythe? Zick, yes. But I think that's a model that definitely needs to be put in. I might get him for the chimera. Yeah, if he's in chimera, absolutely. Well, that and I'm also looking into old umbre. That might be another one I start here eventually. Well, then you have two reasons to get him. Old Umbre do look cool. The old Umbre, probably out of my top, of course I love the Brine Bloods. I think they're for me, they're really fun to play. They're definitely my more heartfelt army. I think they're kind of goofy, they're kind of clowny, they definitely pull me in. Drunken pirate trolls can all go wrong with that. Absolutely. They are nothing but a hot mess, and they do well at being that. Then I would probably say number two, I'm torn. I I want to say Kithguard, because they look great, but I haven't been able to see them. I haven't been able to play them, I haven't but aesthetically, I mean, ranged military trolls.

SPEAKER_01: 17:16

Have we seen any Kithguard models?

SPEAKER_00: 17:18

Yes, they've released some. They also had them at uh was it at Nova?

SPEAKER_03: 17:26

So the one troll that looks like a blitzer is like the thing on his back. Yes, yeah, like two swords or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:32

They they had the models out and they had the one guy standing with the machine gun. Yeah. There is actual models that were in a display case. Okay. And they had the one pig that was like popping out of like a trapdoor.

unknown: 17:43

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:44

Yeah. Or maybe it was a troll. I I don't know. When it it's kind of flat, so you don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 17:50

Drawn a blank. Yeah. For a reason, the only thing I can remember is the uh artwork that they released.

SPEAKER_00: 17:55

Yeah, there's there's a lot of fun, nifty models, and I think they said that there wasn't gonna be any gargantuans for them. The largest was gonna be eighties. It's a shame. I would agree. I would love to see like an old like ice king come out and just rainbow troll. Right? Could you imagine that blade just put a 50 kill on his back? It's gotta be bigger than that.

SPEAKER_03: 18:21

Put a hundred kill on his back.

SPEAKER_00: 18:23

I was gonna say you're gonna need like that. It's gonna be carrying like an A10. Uh carry a pig tank on his back. I mean that too. Is grab like a few of the pig uh cannoneers and just have him just like walk around. I support this. Steamfork. Yeah, there's a lot of uh fun little uh things coming out there. And then probably my third, I've gotta say, is old ombre. I think that their models look really good because there's a lot of fine detail, there's a lot of like antlers and things like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:03

What I will say about all those the Mark IV armies in general is they just all look nice. It's all very aesthetically pleasing. Like all the armies look cool.

SPEAKER_00: 19:15

That that is absolutely one of the bigger things. And all of with my kids, when they've looked at it, they kind of looked at some of the older models and then they look at some of the new models, and they're like, Why are yeah, they're like, why are these so much cooler and why are those so heavy? I'm like, well, that's from Mark One, so leave it alone. Yes, they're metal, but these are good, these are fun. Yeah, but your models are so much nicer. It's like, well, yeah, because Tad's buying the new stuff. I'm like, but you guys have a starter kit coming in roughly two weeks.

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

Now, to be fair, like some of the Mark III stuff that Privateer Press was putting out when they started redoing sculpts looked amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 19:59

I have to go back and I have to kind of re-look at what was Mark III. Like I have a re-sculpt of Denagra. Looks incredible. Okay. I'd have to look at that. There's just a lot of those models that when I was dropping in and out that I wasn't quite up to date with. And there's so many that are out there that we were talking about last episode. You know, Butcher 1, 2, 3, 4 is trying to keep up with what one is what. And again, like I I know that you were able to tell me exactly. Speaking of Butcher, I did say I was going to look into the Butcher with the Argus hounds. I have the answer. This goes back to I want to say the Vengeance book or the Vengeance expansion. The butcher was wandering through his camp, or I should say his encampment, and he's seen a hound trainer, because they trained the hounds, and he was getting very frustrated and was going to euthanize these packs of hounds because they wouldn't break. From the information I found, it wasn't very clear on what the butcher did to the hound trainer, but he said that he rescued the hounds and they made a connection with him for saving their life. So now they serve him. Knowing his name, we know exactly what happened in that guy. And so right. And then the hounds turned loyal to him for them being saved by the butcher.

SPEAKER_01: 21:35

Okay. So why can't Orgoth do the same thing? Just find some schlub to abuse the hounds and you know, Orgoth boss man comes over and butchers the guy who's being a jerk.

SPEAKER_00: 21:48

But then they're not undead. Yeah. It's when I found that out, I was like, ooh, that's interesting. Why do you not say what you did to the hound trainer? Yeah, I was gonna say it, Mike. Uh depending on, I might be able to get the actual uh the books here shortly. Once I actually get my hands on the physical book, other than we'll say third-party information with a citation of where it came from, I will be able to directly report back with the exact details. But that's what I found. Join us on Patreon. You can find out exactly what happened to the butcher. Well, we don't have one of those yet, but the podcast is getting a little expensive, to be fair. Another question. Oh, you do have questions. Yep. That's why I was like, hey, why don't you have some questions?

SPEAKER_01: 22:41

Who is your favorite war machine caster?

SPEAKER_03: 22:44

So my personal favorite is the Captain Gunbajornborn. Born whatever. Captain Gunborn? Yeah, maybe J's Jay Silent.

SPEAKER_00: 22:53

Yeah. Whatever. Well, that that's why he'd be like Ford. It's not Fajored. It could be. I'm pretty sure it's not. To you, maybe. That's fair. I'm the one who struggles pronouncing everything.

SPEAKER_03: 23:06

I'm like, oh Yeah, I mean I mean he looked cool right off the bat because he's got the big bazooka, but then like actually playing him, I like just how he played his shooting and his dozer and smig buddy that he's bonded with.

SPEAKER_00: 23:23

Without knowing any of the lore on Captain Gunborn, do you think he's gonna be a key caster in this coming Kith Guard?

SPEAKER_03: 23:33

I can tell you with 100% certainty I know zero of the lore behind this guy, other than he looks cool.

SPEAKER_00: 23:39

Okay. Well, I don't know if he survived or if he died or anything like that, but That makes two of us.

SPEAKER_03: 23:45

Well, if he if he didn't If he did die, I think his look fits well with the coming Kith Guard. Like he looks like a jungle troll kind of guy.

SPEAKER_00: 23:55

Well, I know I know a good portion of the trolls during the invasion went into the jungle, and that's where they went and stayed and hid. While the other group went out to the seas and became the Brine Bloods. So the Kith Guard could be with uh Gunborn.

SPEAKER_03: 24:13

If that's true, then I'm even more sold on the Kith Guard.

SPEAKER_00: 24:17

Well, I hope for both of our sake, the answer is yes. Because I will tell you, the closest I came to watching Chum get eaten alive that wasn't by a complete list of Everblight destruction of Chum was by him. To be fair, Sorce has killed Chum. Yes. That was very early on. Did she? Yeah. Yeah. She she killed him. It was her and two uh two juggernauts, right? No.

SPEAKER_01: 24:47

Um Sortia did it on her own. And then uh the dog blocked. Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_00: 24:57

Yep. Because he wasn't able to stumble away.

SPEAKER_03: 25:00

Mm-hmm. Does she have grievous wounds?

SPEAKER_00: 25:03

No. No. It just I couldn't I couldn't stumble away from her. Oh sorry. Normally she'd only be able to hit him twice, and then um I wasn't able to stumble away because they had lined perfectly up where I couldn't move. Perfect. But then I think didn't Foul Blood kill her right afterwards? I don't think so. I don't remember. I remember her coming in and getting chum at one point. That was probably in our first like two games that we've ever played a Mark IV. Maybe. Yeah. And we've been playing quite a bit of Mark IV.

SPEAKER_03: 25:34

I think I've only ever killed her once.

SPEAKER_00: 25:37

So ever.

SPEAKER_03: 25:39

Not just this edition, just in general. I think I've killed her twice.

SPEAKER_00: 25:45

And it might have been with born. Yeah, once was a long time ago, and once not long ago.

SPEAKER_03: 25:54

I know Thorgosh killed her once. That's what it was. It was that game, but we he moved over to do it. That's right. That was on my when Tom was quasi-playing. He was just there for moral support and we used his guys.

SPEAKER_00: 26:09

I was gonna say your son does play too, yeah? Kind of. Some and go, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 26:13

Yeah. When he feels the when he strikes the fancy for it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:18

Yeah. John was actually uh very excited today in our uh gaming group. He actually came out and played his first game ever of fifty points, fielded a bunch of the new models that he received, and he legitimately charged two slayers and I think it's called the Reaver. It's the one with the uh with the pick and the the harpoon gun. I think that's a reaper. It might be a reaper.

SPEAKER_03: 26:50

That sounds yeah, that sounds like what he said.

SPEAKER_00: 26:53

But yeah, he charged both of those into my aberration.

SPEAKER_01: 26:57

I think there was a chicken in there, too.

SPEAKER_00: 26:59

Oh yeah, yeah, the chicken. Yeah, so there was variety. It was it was the uh sludge thrower one, the defiler. Actually, the chicken was the main thing in there. The chicken did so much damage. He popped Dinagra's feet, brought it down to 15 armor, and then just started it it dealt so much damage with this sludge thrower. I think it dealt like 14 points of damage. It was ridiculous at the level of damage he put out.

SPEAKER_03: 27:31

Why is this chickens what killed Fagrosh today? So the chickens were the MVPs of that game.

SPEAKER_00: 27:38

I will tell you, the chickens are usually the MVPs, and that's like your rippers or your not your rippers, that's what you had. That was it, Death Rippers.

SPEAKER_01: 27:47

Yeah. And then the Death Ripper's such a good jack for four points.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

Yeah, they are crazy good. Yeah, it just like bites on and then start it won't let go. It just starts tearing things up. There's a reason I try to kill those things first.

SPEAKER_03: 28:02

Well, yeah, especially when I have the range list, that's usually what a great deal of animal goes to.

SPEAKER_00: 28:08

Well, because then all of a sudden, if you're not careful, they ghost walk and then they just jump through and now they're on top of you, and it's like, oh, this is gonna be not ending well for anyone. Let's see, my favorite caster to answer the question, probably has gotta be Alistair Kane. I think current version or old school version? Well, current version, I think he's I think he's gameplay-wise, I think he's a lot of fun. He's very difficult to handle as far as dealing with him on the board. Now, he is very squishy, so if you get on him, that's a you've messed up and that that's a big, big problem. But he can run for days. That's why one of my goals is to try to kill that guy at some point. Uh that very well could have happened today, but he was yeah, he was gonna get cornered and that wouldn't have ended well. But even with his lore, his lore is very, very deep. There's a lot of stories on him, and he goes back from Mark One all the way up. He's recent number of promotions. I mean, even in his brief little lore, it's like he's a drunkard. He's like an assassin, he's this guy. Sounds like he's a party. I think Alistair Kane would probably be more favorite casters overall, and probably.

SPEAKER_01: 29:31

Yeah, I really liked him in Mark II.

SPEAKER_00: 29:33

Can't say anything about him since, but yeah, he in Mark II he was really, really strong too, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01: 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:40

Yeah, he could he could just start spitting fire and just start lighting people up like crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 29:45

That's right, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00: 29:47

He's always been that way, though. That's that's the fun thing about him, is that he really hasn't changed a whole lot in any edition, but again, why fix something that isn't broken? Right. Yeah. What is your favorite?

SPEAKER_01: 30:02

Uh for Mark IV, I'm just gonna go with more Nabra, because it's the only like Mark IV caster I've really played with. Is that the one from today? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 30:12

Generally speaking, I'd probably say Sorja. Isn't she I think she's hunting for her daughter, and that's the reason why she's not in Mark IV currently. I believe I saw something to that effect. I could be wrong, but we eventually are going to be doing a dive into Kador and Signar. Definitely. Be a multifaceted episode because those lures go very deep, very long. And Angus is definitely a heavy Crix player and also a very heavy Kador player. For juggernauts. Yes. Someone send me a juggernaut.

SPEAKER_03: 30:49

Have you played anything other than those two things?

SPEAKER_00: 30:52

No.

SPEAKER_03: 30:53

I don't think so. No, you did Signar, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00: 30:56

Well, like once. Yeah. I was going to say I inherited all of your old Signar stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 31:02

But I don't think I've ever played against a Cygnar from you.

SPEAKER_00: 31:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 31:06

It's always been one of the other two.

SPEAKER_01: 31:09

So I'm looking forward to getting mummies.

SPEAKER_00: 31:11

Yeah. Those those new ones definitely look good. I'm really interested to see what their actual rules are going to be like. The Graveborne rules and also the Nessians as well. Once they actually fully release, I really want to see what they're about.

SPEAKER_01: 31:29

Also very much interested in uh trying out Crucible Guard, but who knows what's going on with that.

SPEAKER_00: 31:34

Yeah, there was some speculation, as we thought with this uh War Machine Wednesday that we thought that that was going to be popping up, and we assumed that it was going to be part of this release for the monthly subscription. And then we looked into it and it looks like there was some confusion. And it showed that it says that it was going to be available on the store. And one of the questions came out about that. And not just Angus and I, but we noticed that there were some other people that were kind of confused as us because we were all waiting for this to kind of show up, but it wasn't there. It wasn't part of the release. And someone's like, well, hey, you know, it's going to just be for sale on the store. And we're like, oh, okay. Well, I guess that kind of makes sense. But when we I went back and I read it over, it just said it was going to be in the store, but it didn't say that it wasn't going to be part of the release. But it didn't say that it was going to be exclusively only for sale in the store.

SPEAKER_01: 32:34

Which so far everything on my minifactory has been part of the release, and then afterwards it goes to the store.

SPEAKER_00: 32:40

Correct. Which again, I I think I think there was some confusion with that. And uh somebody said that it was explicitly clear, and I kind of thought about it, and I was like, no, no, I I I I don't I don't think so, because there's multiple people that were confused by this. So I wouldn't say explicitly when four out of two thought one way and then two didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:01

But that, you know, and that's fine. And that's okay. It's just it was one of those things that it was a confusion, there was clarification, and it's like, okay, fine, moving on. But hopefully, because they did say it was coming out in November, I'm wondering when in November it's gonna drop into there. And I would like to see what this box is actually gonna look like. We shall see. Yep. We'll have to wait. Well, November is before Christmas, so I hope so. Because in the yeah, because in the uh the the blog post that they did, it said it was gonna be coming out in November.

SPEAKER_01: 33:35

I know. I sent Steam Forge a message asking them what was going on with it.

SPEAKER_00: 33:39

Okay. Well, when you hear back from that, we'll definitely cover that. Anytime I've sent any sort of message to Steamforged, it's usually been handled pretty expeditiously. I know that hasn't been Angus's uh experience, but we will definitely retouch on that and then we'll even talk about the timeline on that and go from there, see what it was, because mine has been about two business days, and then they reply, if not sooner. And I know Angus had one email that took Oh, it still hasn't been replied yet. I was gonna say it still wasn't replied to, and it was a couple months ago. But the issue was resolved within its own self, correct?

SPEAKER_01: 34:17

Yes. Okay. Not necessarily just their response team never got around to was it a nice email?

SPEAKER_03: 34:24

It was. Maybe they read it and just did it and they just forgot to tell you thank you. That's pretty much exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_00: 34:34

Here's your code, leave me alone. There's ten million of you wanting this right now. Sorry. Let's throw this one out there. What do you guys think of the unit movement? With the old way, you had to have them all within a certain distance. There was the unit cohesion. So they had to be within two or three inches, whatever it was, of this placement model. Now with unit movement, you have your we'll just use the term prime model that you move, and then they have to be within two inches of that model, but then you can reposition them if they have repositioned, and then they can explode outwards, and then they can magically teleport to wherever else they're going to be going next. It's very confusing. I would agree. It is it has been one of the most frustrating learning curves for me, because all of a sudden it's like, oh, I'm good here, and then this guy who's like six inches away. Yep. So all of a sudden in your face. Right. He's he's like 13 inches away from me, and now all of a sudden he's on top of my guy, and I'm like, how did this happen? It's definitely one of my more confusing aspects of this game.

SPEAKER_03: 35:47

It's kind of just reprogramming your brain, especially from like eight previous editions and just other games that all use the same cohesion mechanism for the most part. Right. Like the 40Ks and stuff, you know, they all got to be within whatever. So this one's like getting used to the new way.

SPEAKER_00: 36:05

Right. It's it's but the other thing is that not all the models function like that. Right. Right. That's that's the other thing. It's like, okay, so you have to measure and they have to be completely within this distance. Except for those guys that they can be touching this distance, and because if it's at, then it is considered to be within, and there's some funky shenanigans. It's very goofy. But it's definitely one of those bigger learning curves, and it still catches me from time to time where all of a sudden I'm like, all right, cool. Wait, how did he Okay, yep, he's in a unit. That's fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:44

I've definitely had my caster knocked out a few times because the threat range was misjudged.

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

Right. You're like, that guy can't get in there. Yeah. Some of those movements, especially when all of a sudden they start casting spells and then they start amplifying the movement and it it gets really intense.

SPEAKER_03: 37:03

Especially if you don't know what the other ones do. And then all of a sudden it's like you're playing them for the first time. And it's like, oh, that escalated quickly.

SPEAKER_00: 37:12

Well, that that was like, oh huh. Yeah, that was today with me and uh with uh when I charged my Oh the Malefactor. Yeah, the headless armless guy. Yeah, the headless armless guy, because I didn't get the magnets on them in time, but he comes charging down and he I casted, I believe it was red line, and popped my feet with a visceraus, so he gets plus four speed, and then he just comes flying down. He get his total threat range was like 15 inches. And I just opened up enough of a hole to drop him right into the center of a unit and two trolls with his shield and his uh was it the Hell Reaper, the Hell Axe, whatever that one is. Yeah. It's the axe. He just started just chopping, just chopping stuff up, and he didn't he did he did work.

SPEAKER_01: 38:05

That axe is good stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 38:07

Oh yeah. Well not the thing that tr carved up the yeah, and made pretty short work of your Carnivian.

SPEAKER_01: 38:13

That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 38:14

Yeah, because they can't heal and was it POW 19, 18? I believe it's 18. Yeah, it it's it's gross. And it's it's mad as seven, I want to say. Sounds right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 38:26

To be fair, at least they had the birth thrall's focus to kill it though, so yeah, but then he just pumps it back up.

SPEAKER_00: 38:34

Yeah. It's just a thing. That was uh this game was definitely How did the uh Hades work out for you? Uh well, it it took a little bit of getting used to because it's range 12, right? So you can start shooting at range 12, but he can't siphon souls until he's at 10. So you want to be kind of within like 10 inches, but then that really exposes you for threat range. But being at 10 inches and having somebody else kill models for you, and then you just start siphoning souls that way, uh, it worked out really well. And then uh I had him start shooting and uh took out Paul's caster at the end, which I didn't realize, and nor did he realize until he said something. He's like, Oh, I shouldn't have done that. And I looked and I realized I was like, Oh, yeah, you probably shouldn't have because I could shoot him again. He intended to run him away, and instead he attacked and killed the Furies with his caster, but then the souls were just sitting there that were stockpiled, and he just shot once. If that wasn't going to be enough, which I think it was, Chatterbane was right behind him to slap him and get him going again and burn that second soul to finish that off. He's a learning curve because he they he dropped a pig right in front of him and he's like, What is and just like squishes the pig and just whoop soul? Yep, and then immediately Paul was like, Oh, that wasn't smart. And I was like, Nope, thump, just launch. But yeah, it was it learning learning some of those newer models is definitely kind of confusing. And especially first time playing that army, and it now to be fair, I was playing both sides of the table, so I'm legitimately walking back and forth every turn, like every turn, I'm walking back and forth, and I'm playing against my son John, and then I swing around to the onto John's side of the table, and then I'm playing against Paul. Legitimately, I'm just constantly fighting each other, and I'm on both sides of the team, and I made sure that on me, Paul, and Chris's side that I was the leader for that, you know, Alistair has he's like virtually the most mobile character there. So keeping him alive is not too difficult. But when you have on the other side, we had Danagra with all of the meat shields of all the slayers and all those guys keep her alive. It just it just was a good little fit. So our two essentially rival groups were lined up, and ultimately the Cricks were gonna take out that day. But learning how to play the Cricks today was definitely fun. I'll get faster with them the more I play with them. I think the Brian Bloods are gonna take a little bit of a back seat until I can get everything painted up fully, get my trolls painted or the new troll battle group painted. But that's gonna be after I finish the SKS, which I still have to do. But I have a vacation coming soon. Gotta paint those criks. Yep. They are gonna be done probably after I finish the the SKS. I'll do probably the Cricks and I'll finish the trolls. Beautiful. Yep, that's that's my intention. I also uh I had seen a few pictures of one of the uh listeners sent me of their troll, and I'll tell you, they're using a sponge technique. Like they use like a almost like a makeup sponge to apply, and I will tell you the it was insane. The level of detail. How do you do that? That is it just blew my mind at how good how good it turned out. This might be what I need to do because of how much I shake when I try to paint. I might have to like really look into this technique and learn how to do this.

SPEAKER_03: 42:49

So I've seen them do stuff like that and just use it as painting in the normal sense. And then also using that same technique for like the speed paints.

SPEAKER_00: 42:59

The listener actually does a combination of speed paint and traditional paint, your standard acrylic.

SPEAKER_03: 43:07

There are some parts of a model that work really well for speeds. Like hair, fur, leather pouches type stuff. Even I'll do that, do those in the speeds and do the other stuff in the normal ones.

SPEAKER_00: 43:21

Alright, so I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna put this on pause real quick. I'm gonna show them the images and I'll be right back. Alright, so now I just showed them the pictures from the listener that just showed me. What do you guys think? Looks good. Beautiful. It's a lot better than what I can do. I I even said I'm like, this is amazing. I'm like, I can't I can't even do this with a paintbrush. Yep. Again, I'm happy with just speed paints and xenoth highlighting and calling it a day. They've come a long way. Have you considered trying markers? Okay, so I've seen them and it really interests me. And now they have speed paint markers as well. Is that what I saw you had, Chris? Yeah. All right. I might have to give those a shot and try those out. You can buy just like regular acrylic markers. Those those have been out for a while.

SPEAKER_01: 44:12

They work just fine.

SPEAKER_00: 44:13

Do they?

SPEAKER_01: 44:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:14

All right. Maybe I'll need to look at that for like highlighting.

SPEAKER_01: 44:16

I can't bring myself to pay the crazy amount of money for the army painter ones.

SPEAKER_00: 44:21

But they probably make third-party ones that I would assume would be reasonably cheaper.

SPEAKER_01: 44:25

Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm just saying the acrylic ones that I buy off of Amazon, it was like twenty bucks for I don't know, twenty-eight different colors. The ones that well the ones I have.

SPEAKER_03: 44:38

They're the marker and then there's like a longer brush tip. Which uh you can like press the end of it, it fills up the brush end, and then you can do your thing with it. I mean I use it mostly for like metallics right now. Okay. Well, my trolls, most of all their bronze type stuff has been that marker. Okay. Like I don't have a ton of them yet, because I was just testing them out. They work for that purpose.

SPEAKER_00: 45:05

So you found that they work fairly well for like kind of like base coating almost?

SPEAKER_03: 45:12

Yeah, I'll I'll base them and then just use the normal wash and then I'll use the normal acrylic paints over it when I do the highlights.

SPEAKER_00: 45:20

Okay. So you use the the markers essentially for the like the base coating to kind of speed things up? Yeah. Okay. And I like the color of it too, so.

SPEAKER_01: 45:29

Yeah. I I can believe that. I use them for edge highlighting, actually.

SPEAKER_02: 45:33

Huh.

SPEAKER_01: 45:34

That are yeah. Painting rivets. Boop, boop, boop, boop.

SPEAKER_00: 45:38

I could see that being very my biggest issue is because between my eyesight and with my shaking, if you ever look real close at my rivets, they are way off. I'll go give it a light little tap and I'm either to the right or something's off. I can see rivets working good for that. Mm-hmm. Well, definitely you might see some stuff coming up in the Facebook group, because Chris is going to be painting up some chimera soon.

SPEAKER_03: 46:06

That's true. So Tony just finished building them up, so I'm going to paint them up and kind of do a little progression, how things are going and a little like how-to techniques. It's not going to be like a full how-to painting guide, but just kind of progress updates and stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 46:22

Yeah. And definitely if you guys have questions or if you have any kind of interest in that field, Chris is definitely a good person to ask, as is Angus. So if you guys go ahead and just drop into the Facebook group and give us a little bit of a shout-out, we'll definitely respond to your question if we can. Yeah, you can at summon us whenever we shall appear.

SPEAKER_01: 46:45

It's true. We'll answer any question. Maybe not well, but we'll answer it.

SPEAKER_00: 46:50

I can't guarantee I'll be right, but I'll answer it. That's usually how it goes with me. Is I'm like, all right, this is what I think it is next episode. So I was completely wrong. I was way off base. This is what the actual answer is. And that's one of the biggest things is that even when I have been wrong, the community has been so far very accepting. They're like, hey, by the way, it's not necessarily this, but it's actually that. And then they provide me with a way to actually go ahead, look into it, and have the accurate information because some of the stuff, there's no way to find it now. Now that War Machine University's gone, a lot of these things you need to have the physical book. I found out that the this goes a couple episodes back, but I found out that the elves have their own calendar and their own way of keeping time, even though most of them now just use the usual human calendar. There was a whole mathematical system on how they would go through things. And there would have been no way to find it had not this person said, Hey, it's actually in this one book from forever ago. It's a little blurb off in this corner. They're like, that's where you would have found it. I was like, okay. So there's no way I would have ever found this. But and that's again, that's one of those community things that everybody gets involved, and I definitely will share the information I get and these updates as I learn of them and I bring it out. I guess I like learning, and when I learn, I get excited to share that knowledge because then if you already know it, well, awesome. And if not, you just learn something too.

SPEAKER_03: 48:33

Yeah. Like all those deep dive episodes you do, it's all news to me. I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00: 48:40

We've actually had a a lot of people that have really enjoyed the lore dives that we've been doing. And it's it's all basically it's to get people excited and to learn about the potential armies that they're going to be buying into. And if you're going to invest the money into an army, you might as well know who they are. Perfect example is when you go into looking to purchase an army and you don't know the history or the lore, all of a sudden you can show up playing and people are like, oh, these are just cool models. And that is a good starting point. Do you like the aesthetics of these models? Luckily, you can, you know, with a little bit of Google searching, you can actually find out a little bit about those people. If you subscribe to this app, you can find out a lot more about it. You can dive into exactly who these guys are. You can look at their cards, learn how they play before you make the purchase. And if you have that advanced knowledge, you will be much more educated on how to play and how to purchase ahead of time. And the lore just helps solidify that background. And that's what I kind of pushed for is when you're making this commitment, when you're diving into this army, kind of know who they are. And that's what we're trying to do, is we're we're still in that infancy phase of having people learn their armies and not just how they play, but how they function, how they go through the story, because War Machine is a very heavily narrative-based game that it is very heavily influenced by the stories that are told through it. And hence you'll see characters die off. You'll see these things happen through the progressions from Mark I to Mark IV. Characters die and then they basically not disappear fully, but they're just removed from the story and they're not as relevant anymore.

SPEAKER_03: 50:35

I mean, I can't wait till you do the troll boat's deep dive so I can figure out what Captain Gunborne's history is.

SPEAKER_00: 50:43

When I was actually I actually did uh see him pop up and he was actually running with some Signar folk for a little bit when there was the invasion when Gersheld was killed during Gorsheld? Yeah, both Gorsheld. Uh both. Uh the Yeah. I'm not I spent too many episodes talking about that. I'm so far past that. Go back and listen to the previous episodes. Yeah, yeah. Dusk one, dusk two, like two episodes after that. Like it it just keeps popping up. Even with my kids, and when we when I had both my two older boys on, we touched on it. I'm like, all right, I I want to leave this behind. Let's just move past this. With Gersheld, then Gorshade, then back to Gersheld.

SPEAKER_01: 51:33

There's only Gorshade.

SPEAKER_00: 51:35

Is that actually the same guy? Yes. It is. So it was Gersheld, and then he was So it was a right guy, then he became Gorshade and the Crix, and they went back to the other one. Well, so what happens is is that we don't like to talk about him going back. Angus doesn't. He learned something to every day. So he was he was there and he got killed. And well, I shouldn't say he got killed. He got grievously wounded. He ran and he met up with the Crix and they revitalized him as Gorshade. Gorshade was still super pissed and wanted to kill the gods of the Iosians. So he goes back to Ios to go kill them. Well, the gods were like, poof, kills everyone around him. You're gonna serve us, and that's that. And then they made him alive again, and he served them, and then eventually got completely corrupted as a voidar con and then lost his mind, and then he was killed uh by the council, the council test. I forgot what her name is, but to uh eliminate the threat, we'll put it that way. Impressive. Yeah, so she was casting sigils on him to basically paralyze him and which uh I was pointed in the direction of reading the stories, and it goes through one through four. That's what you can find through Privateer Press. Then there's a collection after that that it it extends many more episodes. I was given access to a Google Drive, and I was only able to read the next, I want to say three or four. And in those stories, Gunborne's in there, toting around with I forgot who, but yeah, he's like rolling around and they're like getting ready to fight and do all sorts of stuff. So it was still alive. To where I got to, yes. Well, that gives me hope. Yeah. But there's more stories after that, so I can't promise you, but uh, that's where he was. And this is also pre-Mark IV. If he's in Kith Guard, that's gonna be awesome. That's what I'm saying. I I really hope he is.

SPEAKER_03: 53:45

That'll just reinforce my desire to have them.

SPEAKER_00: 53:48

Make that your uh your first Mark IV army? My first official Mark IV army.

SPEAKER_01: 53:55

What is your favorite war machine miniature?

SPEAKER_03: 53:58

That that is a good question. Just the way it looks? Mm-hmm. Hmm. I don't know, I'm kind of impartial to my my dozer and smig. I was gonna say, I'm like, you really dig the dozer and smig bottle. Yeah. And at first, like, I really didn't even pay attention to it until I found out that it was bonded to Gunborn. I'm like, alright, well now I have to get this. And then when I got it, like, alright, this is awesome. And the fact there's a stolen KDOR cannon on the back is icing on the cake. What about you, Angus?

SPEAKER_01: 54:33

Uh gee. I'd probably go forward sortia or the Behemoth Resculpt.

SPEAKER_00: 54:40

Okay. I'm gonna run with everyone's gonna think I'm gonna say chum, but that's not it. Probably my favorite model would have to be the Abyssal King. Okay. So the big giant, you know. All the tentacle monsters. All the tentacle monsters. Yeah. Uh yeah. I I really like that model. I think I think it's a really cool looking model. There's a lot of detail to it. And then I gotta go with probably the old Umbre model, the Lord of the Hunt. It's a newer model, rule-wise, it's pretty good. But looking at it, I mean it's it's a great model. You got the stag antler head, he's got all these wolves. He just looks good. It is a very good sculpt, and I think it'll be even more fun to play.

SPEAKER_03: 55:37

If you want to go into Mark IV models, I would say that that one you have the Predator Chick.

SPEAKER_00: 55:42

Oh, Nisak?

SPEAKER_03: 55:43

That looks pretty dope.

SPEAKER_00: 55:44

Yeah, that is a nice model. Yeah, Nissek is really good. She also looks really good because Angus painted her for me, and he did a lot of work on her, and he put up the palm trees, and it it's a gorgeous looking model. Uh I don't know if I posted that in Facebook. If if so, if I haven't, I will definitely do so.

SPEAKER_03: 56:05

Yeah, that one's definitely cool. Yeah. And yes, Angus's paint job is fantastic as well.

SPEAKER_01: 56:11

Well, thank you. Um what advice would you give to any new hobbyists?

SPEAKER_03: 56:16

I would say take your time, find what looks cool to you, and then start from there. And ask questions. Find out who else is doing it or playing it, and ask questions. Like when we're playing, there's always people stopping by. It's like, oh hey, what you playing? Or what's this? Or you know, just engage those people. Like even today there's a little guy that was came by and was really fascinated with what we were doing. And I even thought, here, look at this guy. I'd go, ooh, this guy's cool.

SPEAKER_00: 56:46

Yeah. We even had like a six-year-old woman who came in and asked, she's like, What are you guys playing? Oh, it's war machine. It's right up over here. You can take a look at it. Then she walked away. But that's fine.

SPEAKER_03: 56:57

I would say, yeah, always just engage those new people. And it's like, the worst thing you could do is somebody asks a question, you just like cold shoulder them. And they're like, well, I don't want to deal with those people.

SPEAKER_00: 57:07

Right. And then that leaves the new hobbyists or potential hobbyists out with just this bad impression. My advice I would definitely lean in is very, very similar to yours, but start slow. Don't jump in and buy a hundred-point army. Don't go in and spend six hundred, seven hundred dollars on this. Start slow. Learn the entire aspect of the hobby. Learn how to build the models. Learn how to play. Learn how to paint. If painting's not for you, you'll learn very quickly, and then you'll stop. Or you learn, hey, I really don't want to build these. Then you know this hobby probably isn't for you. But I know plenty of people who don't play these games that we talk about, but absolutely love the models and love painting them. So they collect and paint. And then they sit on a shelf. And for me, it's like, oh, come on, get them out of here. Come on, let's go play. But playing is a larger part of my hobby. And whatever hobby it is, you'll find what it is. And as you heard us say earlier, what is your favorite part? Angus is building and painting. Gaming's probably third. Then you have Chris who says gaming. I am definitely the same way. I want to get those models on the table as fast as possible. Like even my Cricks, they're not painted, they're not primed, but guess what? They went out there today and they did well. They should have got debuffs for that. Should have got debuffs?

SPEAKER_01: 58:43

Yeah, for now.

SPEAKER_00: 58:45

Yeah, yeah. There has been some. I have two armor. They don't have the paint. When we started our escalation league, Angus was gonna be bringing not Cador to the first part of the game. But when he found out that I had a fully painted army, he said, Nope. It is He's like, if Tony has a fully painted army who is known for having nothing but gray, he's showing up fully painted, I am not not showing up with a fully painted army. Yep. So then it switched right over to Kator. And so the beatdown began of my poor Brian Bloods. I like the three juggernauts though. I will definitely tell you I disagree. You don't like three juggernauts? If I started playing with my Cygnar models, Deuce will do some work.

SPEAKER_01: 59:36

Yeah, he'll probably kill a juggernaut or two.

SPEAKER_00: 59:39

Yeah. But then it's all over. Then I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to. It's 132 hitboxes. I can't and armor 20. I just can't.

SPEAKER_03: 59:47

I've killed a juggernaut.

SPEAKER_00: 59:49

I've killed what two? Two in two turns?

SPEAKER_01: 59:52

I don't know. I know that the most amount of casualties I've taken on juggernauts is two.

SPEAKER_00: 59:58

Yeah. And I think that was when I rushed up with Chum and I was I was plinking away. I came up and I killed two because I killed your mechanics, and then I got wiped out. It's yeah, because that's when she swung around and just ate me alive. Yeah, that was that game where I chopped No, I didn't kill both of them. I killed one of 'em. I killed one of 'em because the other juggernaut was still there. Because it was the juggernaut, the hound, and then your guy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:28

Because I killed the two mechanics. Three mechanics. It's Learning the hobbies and taking it in that aspect in the easiest way to learn from the beginning is just by going slow. Because if you jump in and you go too far too fast, you get very overwhelmed. You look at, oh my gosh, I've got all this stuff to build. Even still to this day, I still, if I dive in, I buy an army box, I'm like, oh my God, look at all this stuff I gotta build. I did that with old world. When old world came out, I was buying all these boxes, and all of a sudden I looked, I gotta build 140 skeletons. What am I gonna do with all this? And that was a very poor decision on my part. Because I did eventually build them all, and now that's where they live. As I am gesturing to my shelf.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:19

Well, I kind of know what you're getting into is a big thing too, because when I originally started all the way back when the first models I built was a squad of dwarf warriors for Warhammer. And I probably have them. You probably do. Because back then I didn't have any concept of you know, all units had to be the same. So I had some guys with like axe and shield, I had some two-handed guys that were all like the same unit. Then you read like the codex, it's like this doesn't actually fit together.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:50

Yeah. Oh man, no, I need to go buy another box. Yeah. That's when back when they came in a unit of 16 and you needed 20. Why? Because then you have to buy like four boxes to get them to square up right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:06

And the command booster only had three, so that you're still off a guy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:10

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:11

Yeah. Or you just had this weird rank system that just never worked out. Then they tried to do it where you had to like center them and then you had always even numbers. Yeah. Because it was four by four, and that never worked out right either. Because then you'll give this one guy weird in-between everything.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:29

Then they changed it say they're like five by four.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:31

So the 16-man unit box is definitely a holdover from an earlier edition. Oh yeah. Because there was time when they ranked up four across.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:39

Yeah, they they do now. In some of their formations, they run four wide. You want to do four instead of five because of five with a template. Anyways, d ignoring that. It's a mess. What about you, Angus? I would say get an airbrush. Let's dive in deep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:00

Yeah. No, just going back and thinking about just the one thing I wish I had gotten way, way sooner. It completely changed my hobby.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:09

I've been told multiple times by you guys that I need to get an airbrush. And I absolutely refuse to get an airbrush. I don't have one. Oh, that's right. That's right. Because Angus came over the one time and he airbrushed your uh Blackbird, yeah. That was not a wrestling night, which in one of the episodes I referenced.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:29

And how cool did I paint up your blackbird? Like 30 minutes? Yeah. Yeah. More than I could ever have done.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:36

Right. There are some things I wish I had an airbrush for, especially like terrain painting and stuff. But that's another thing. It just takes practice to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:47

Yeah, we have we have multiple buddies that actually do airbrushing. I want to say Jim and Scott, they do airbrushing, but my buddy Kyle, he does as well. Like a lot of guys I know, they've moved into airbrushing. I shake so much when I try to paint. I can only imagine having it be propelled out. Like twitch at all, and I'm just spraying everywhere. It'll be fine. Again, I've never used one, so most likely it'll be fine. I just, I don't know. Uh I'll have to give it a try eventually.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:16

Get rid of the rattle cans.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:18

Oh, you don't want to breathe that in all the time? What?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:22

I want to actually be able to prime your round, which we cannot do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:26

Oh yeah. Well at least with a rattle can. Yeah, I was gonna say with a rattle can you really can't. When you hit those cold months, you just can't. Or when it's really wet. When we get the really damp seasons, it really messes up the primer. Yep. It's true. You see it start bubbling. I didn't do anything. Well then you look at the ambient humidity and you're like, oh, that's exactly what it did.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:52

The airbrush I can prime year round and it's dirt cheap.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:56

I've seen that. I'm I'm really considering it. I hope she doesn't listen to this episode. Edit it out. Yeah, oh yeah. No. If you could take one unit into your army from a different faction, what would it be? Unit or just anything in general? Anything that isn't a warcaster. I'll I'll I'll bring it down. So anything that isn't a warcaster. So you can't be like, I'm gonna play Codor and take Gore Shade. Can't do that. But if you're like, I want Dozer and SMIG in my Codor list, why not? Let's break the rules here. I'd probably take the Juggernaut line. So you would take a juggernaut into your trolls. Into your trolls. Get that armor up.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:50

So if they they don't send the one melee thing up while the rest of the guys just rammed fire from afar. I can see that working pretty well.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:58

Jeez. So many options. So many options. Yeah. Really don't know. Yeah, there's there's so many that you gotta kinda like narrow it down and pick. Well, I can tell you. If I'm playing Crix, I'm taking Chum. Because that boy just needs all of the all of it. If you're playing anything, you would take Chum. 100%. If it if it's not Brian Bloods, I'm taking Chum. Because I'm st I love that model. I I love how he plays. I love the reaction of people on the board when they see him roll up. Okay, boom. Alright. That wasn't nearly as fun as we thought it was gonna be. And he looks cool. He does. And he'll beat you with a fish. He'll beat you with a fish. And an anchor. Is it an anchor? No. What's his uh oh the flail? The mines. That's right. The the sea mines. That's right. Yep. Uh deeporn dire troll. It's the generic one. Now what's in his other hand? The man catcher, which is a fish. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, he's got that in the flail, not the anchor. The other one, they can have a shark, a hammerhead shark. That's pretty dope. Yeah. And then you could also give him a net full of crabs. Like, why would you not want that either? Let's go with what do you look forward to for the future of War Machine. What do you look forward to in the future of War Machine? That's a good one. That is a good one. One of the things I was actually really looking forward to was the rule book. And the reason I was really excited about the rule book, and this is so stupid, is you can get it it's coming in with maps, it's coming in with lore, it's coming in with all the things I really enjoy about this hobby. And the thing about it was, is even with the podcast, I've had to filter out a lot of details because there's no real point of reference that I can simply say it's on page 56, it's here, and I can directly point you to a map and say this is where it's going to be. I've got to send you on a Google hunt to go look for these things to try to find these cities on maps that won't necessarily be the same as what I'm going to describe to you. Having a uniform section of where I can point people to, and I'm also one of those guys that I enjoy designing maps. I did that for DD games, I've done all this stuff. I think maps are fun. Having geographical locations and how the world thrives and things that you'll see. I really enjoy that. But being able to have something like that where I can say, hey, this is in the Bloodstone Mountains. It's located on this page number up in the top right corner of the map. Now you'll be able to reference exactly on whatever page, and it'll be right there. And then you could follow along. And that makes it a lot easier and more interactive. And that is something that I do intend to do eventually. I'm not going to necessarily go back and be like, oh, we're going to start referencing all these places. No, but once it does come out, and after I do spend some time with it and learn it, I do want to be able to jump in. And another thing that I'm excited about and what I want to see in the future is with how worlds went and the way people responded and the way the community rallied behind to get it live streamed was awesome. I missed a fair bit of it, but I'm very happy to see and the positivity that was behind it. They learned a lot in the process. So that just tells me next year is going to be even better. So I can't wait for that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:59

I mean, other than the Kith Guard coming out, because you know I'm excited about Jungle Trolls, kind of echoing with Tony was saying, it's just seeing the game and the player base continue to grow. Kind of going from where it was essentially was dead for a while, and now just kind of coming back and just seeing more events that are happening for it, even like playing at the local shops or the local tournaments, and then even going on to like the big you know worlds events and having the big tournaments at the Adepticons, the Novas, the Gen Cons, and all that kind of stuff. So just kind of seeing it continue to grow and more people coming back and to the game in general.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:40

It's exciting. I'm very excited to see what comes out as far as more plastic kits. I think getting away from the 3D printed resin is a good move.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:52

I would definitely agree with that. I really like their plastic kits. I think their plastic kits are really, really good. I have even gone on and said that I would say that they rival, if not exceed, GW in the way that they do this. I think GW has an easier assembly process. I would just say the overall experience with these plastic models are better. They're following some of them. One of my biggest scripts is following the instructions to build them is a little rough. Always dry fit before you glue. Absolutely. Even still, they've all been good. They've all been really great. And even then, it's nothing I couldn't fix. But if you got a brand new hobbyist, they're they might not know what to do. I've built models to the point where we've all struggled. What was the one? Was it Malifo?

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:45

The best. I was just gonna say which one's easier to build, this or Malifo?

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:50

This by a hundred percent. In all of my years of gaming, I have thrown away. I threw away, was it an Avatar Flames of War, Avatars of War, whatever the there is a fantasy game. I want to say there was Avatars of War. Avatars of War. They had a dwarf ranger kit. I went to build them, nothing lined up. There were specific ones that you had to put them to, but there was no building instructions and none of the parts were labeled. Yeah. Because I dry fit everything and nothing lined up. I found I got after three days, I had one model built and I threw the whole box away and I kept the one model I built by principle. Uh yep. I still have it to this day, and it like lives in infamy. You will never, ever go anywhere.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:37

Just a reminder that all things are possible. You can do anything. If you can build this guy, you can do anything.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:43

Uh no, that's why they went in the trash because I wasn't going to spend another three days to build another model when I had another 18 to go after that one. And then Malifo was the other one. It was the samurai or whatever, the guys with a guy's beard or was it the dog's leg?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:57

No, it was a skeleton samurai that he chucked. Oh.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:01

Because there's one one of the casters, you had to put his beard on his chin. Yanlo. Yan Low. So it's like an Asian master guy, his beard, and then there's a zombie chihuahua, then you had to put a leg on him. Oh really. Gosh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:19

No, I did uh no, it was uh it was the samurai for Ten Thunders. It was the the tall samurai looking guys that had the Gatling guns. Yeah, so you build them, but then all of a sudden you realize after you build them that all the Gatling guns, there is a specific way that you were supposed to build them, but it doesn't tell you what they were. And then all of a sudden I realized after I put everything together and I looked at all their Gatling guns, all of them were wrong. Because all of a sudden it just the spacing was weird, but it looked fine when I was building it. I I got them apart, and then I went to and then I had like five extra pieces that didn't even line up with any of the models, and I was like, where did these come from? Where and like I couldn't figure out where they were, where they were supposed to go. I'm looking at the pictures, everything. I was like, okay, bloop into the trash, and that's why I stopped playing Malfo because I was like, I'm done.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:14

You want to know the good news? What's that? The new Malfo models, much easier to assemble.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:19

I've also heard that they actually have instructions. Probably moving up in the world. Yeah. I I would I've also seen some stuff as of late. I've seen uh are they on Mark IV now as well? Yeah. Fourth edition? They're on fourth edition now. Yeah, I've seen some stuff for it come out and once bitten, twice shy. I'm not diving back into that one. It's fun. I I don't And their models were pretty, but they were. Especially back then. Especially back then. They had a lot of pretty models. I'll definitely say that these models now are better, but I haven't looked at any of the new Malfo stuff. Because what was that? How many years ago was that? 15? 12?

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:59

We played in what edition two?

unknown: 1:15:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:02

Yeah. Yeah. So whenever second edition was.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:04

Those were briefly did something in three, but that didn't last very long.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:08

I didn't make it to third. I I got to two, and then I know third was coming out, and I was like, I nope, nope, nope, nope. If this if if history is going to repeat itself, I do not want to be a part of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:20

We caught the very beginning of second edition.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:23

Yeah. And we rode that for a little while. Because I remember I used to play Mr. Graves. Yeah. He was the guy with a two by four that would walk around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:32

For a while I actually had a couple of the metal crews from the first edition. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:36

But w who was the other guy that went with Mr. Graves? It was a scrawny guy. Yeah. I was gonna say it was a really small guy. Graves and like Tanner or something like that? Yeah. I just remember Mr. Graves was the uh was the guy with a four by four that you'd walk around and beat people with.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:53

There's another dude who had the g the Gatling guns, Fujatsu, but in his model you had to glue the f flash from the machine gun fire onto the gun. As you should. Just more little pieces.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:09

Yeah, it's like and that's when I didn't shake so bad. I struggled then. I don't know. It was crazy. But they were cool. Here's a generic little hobby question. For storage, do you guys prefer magnetizing and metal trays, or would you say foam carrying cases?

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:29

Magnet trays. We'll never go back to foam trays. For storing or for carrying?

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:35

Both. For storing I have my magnet cases plus just other boxes that they just sit in that I just use for shelf space. There's only a couple games that I have the foam stuff left for. But most of all of it's been converted to the magnets.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:55

Okay. I've been doing the magnets and I've been moving more of my stuff over, but I have a ton of foam like from battle foam and all that other stuff. I have tons of that stuff too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:08

Sure. I mean, I didn't like throw out any of that stuff. So if like games already exist and are stored in that, they still are.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:16

Right. You've you've been making your way to the magnet trays.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:19

Like all my check your six airplanes, they're in the foam cases. Okay. I'm not going to change that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:25

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:26

But I think with a lot of the models, the newer ones are coming out that are like more intricate, more dynamic posing and stuff. Putting the magnets on them to leave them as they are, as opposed to trying to like, you know, cut a hole in the case and try to fit them in, just leaves too much like broken stuff. So I've I've learned that just the dynamic posing, the magnets have been working better.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:52

That is absolutely that's that's absolutely where I've been, is that I've noticed, especially like this goes back to Warhammer, and I'm trying to transport these models, and also you put a knight into a thing, and it's like, oh yeah, all you need two spaces. No, their lances go way over that, or they're way too tall, so it never fits. It's always been a a struggle for me with these foam cases, and I have like six of them. And then I now started moving over to my uh magnet trays, which I want to say I have two, two magnet trays right now, but I have like 30 cookie sheets that they all sit on. A lot of my models I have actually converted two magnets, but I've only got two transporting bins right now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:39

I have a bunch that are magnetized that are s in like the boxes that you know like the starter army would come in that they just sit there, and then if I'm gonna use that army, I'll just take them out of that box, put them on a magnet tray of one of like the three cases that I have, and then off we go. Yeah, that makes sense. So for storage reasons it's helpful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:03

Alright, boys. Last question I got for you. What other games are you looking forward to trying?

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:09

Ooh. What other game? Huh. So one that I have that doesn't get played a lot. But I have them because I like to paint them. Is the Star Wars Shatterpoint game. Okay. I like that squad-based stuff, which is one of the ones one of the many reasons I like the Marvel game, because of the squad-based stuff. But I wish more play per you know, more people played the Shatterpoint game.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:36

I really thought you were gonna say it was like throw throw burrito or something like that. I have that game at home. I did too until my kids ruined the burritos, and then I was like, great, throw that away too.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:48

I think we also have like avocado tuck a war or something.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:51

Yeah, I've got something like that too. It's floating around down here somewhere. What about you, Angus?

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:56

Um, well, I want to get back into Batman, and then I've also been buying up these uh models from this company called Blockies. They make these little Transformers models. And I want to use the Wiley game's Battlesuit Alpha rules with them.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:14

Okay. What game do I want to play? I've played a little bit of the Marvel Crisis protocol, and I've had a lot of fun with that when I've played it. I would probably say probably I would give Shatterpoint a go. I do know a couple people that have been into it. I know some people that have delved into it a little bit more. It seems like something that I could get into. Other than that, I don't I I'm more mainstream games. I know a few of my buddies have gone into battle tech, and I've briefly looked at it, and I like the old battle tech games, the old computer games and everything, but it just from what I understand, the rules are a little clunky. They are. I wouldn't say it's garbage, it's just very nuanced detailed. I wasn't saying that. I wasn't saying that Battletech was garbage. I was just saying that if I ask you and you say the game is garbage, a game, then I know to stay away because you understand what I look for in games and he's able to steer me away. Um that you say that, I'm thinking back.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:36

They're they have this new StarCraft game. Oh yes! Good. So I know nothing about the gameplay. I know nothing of the rules. All I know is the models look absolutely awesome, and it's based off of StarCraft, which I was a big fan of when I was little.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:57

I was gonna say that that was like our thing. I actually have it for the N64 still. Oh yeah. I have it right now. So it's a thing. Maybe one one day when I'm not too busy tied up, I'll bring I'll bust it out and we all can sit down and play. Play Triumphant. Yep. So I have it. I wonder Xbox.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:19

Could he get it on Xbox?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:20

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:21

Yeah. Huh. Interesting. I mean, I only played on PC, but yeah. Never played it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:27

Yeah. I I would agree. The StarCraft uh miniature game looks really good. Uh they had there was videos of people going to play it. I want to say it was what Essen or whatever they had across the pond. Yeah, it was somewhere over there, and they were selling uh Zero Xero Tool for like 35 bucks. I was like, oh, I want that model, but what am I gonna do with them?

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:53

And then the shipping was like 30.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:55

Yeah, I know. I looked at it, I was like, I can't like man, we're not doing that. Like, I can't I can't spend 70 bucks on this model. I want to, but I can't. I've got too much more war machine to buy. Yeah. Uh but do you guys have any other questions for me? Uh no? Not this time. All right. Well, this was kind of fun just to sh sit around and talk about the hobby and kind of re-catch up on everything and have a little good time. Indeed. Kind of breaks up the lore a little bit. And this is kind of nice to kind of dive in and share our aspects of the community and how we build things out here, northern Illinois, southern Wisconsin. Absolutely. All right, guys. Well, have a wonderful day. You too. All right. Have a good one. Cheers. Bye.