Not Just Tactics
Not Just Tactics is a Warmachine podcast featuring fresh perspectives on the game and its community. This will be done through product review, game play mechanics, tactics, lore, and various other content.
Not Just Tactics
When community shapes the meta more than power does
A meta surprise beats the hype cycle: Khymaera tops Worlds representation while Old Umbrey lands outside the podium. We dig into 160 players factions to map the Worlds landscape. Along the way, we zoom in on Brine Bloods with an audit of caster usage, model picks, and why Madame Moriarty quickly became an auto-include that might tempt balance updates.
We also share a tight 50-point report—Brine Bloods VS Orgoth—where terrain tricks, solo removal, and a clutch charge close a game that looked unwinnable on paper, proving that activation order and scenario geometry still beat raw stats.
Then the human side: a new Cryx player learns more in one match than in months, thanks to a patient opponent who demystifies feat timing and threat ranges, hands over a measuring widget, and makes the table feel welcoming. That’s the throughline of our show—strong communities make better metas. If you want sharper list pairs for anti-range and decisive kill turns, cleaner activation plans, and practical insights grounded in real games, this one will earn a spot in your prep.
If this breakdown sharpened your thinking, follow the show, share it with your local group, and drop a review with the faction you think is most undervalued right now.
Music made by Y. Will
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Hey there, listeners, NJT here, bringing you fresh perspectives on all things war machine and building the community we surround ourselves with. Remember.
SPEAKER_00:We're not just tactics. Hey, Tony.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, Joe. What's going on? Oh, you know, living that dream, having a wonderful time. We actually have a little special guest over here today. Uh we have my oldest boy, John.
SPEAKER_00:It's like I'm seeing double.
SPEAKER_03:Hello. We're going to go ahead and we're going to actually cover a few different things. And uh we're going to cover the the world tournament lists. I actually kind of did a breakdown on it, giving more so values to the percentages of the armies being represented. And I'm only going to bring it down to probably armies represented over three, but I will kind of touch on one that does show up as three because once you hit that three mark, you're talking less than you know two percent.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_03:There is a lot of ones and twos to fill in. So you're looking at when you have one, you're looking at like 0.625% as far as like representation goes.
SPEAKER_00:Makes you wonder, though, are they bringing those armies because they find it fun? Or do they really truly believe that it's going to fit in the current meta?
SPEAKER_03:I don't think it's going to be a current meta thing. I think it's more of this is what they've played for so long, and they're really good at those armies, and that's where they're going to sit. Again, you know, looking at your local metas and everything else, it it kind of does show up. Now, looking at the lists, I was kind of surprised by what I was seeing because looking at the current metas locally and within our gaming group, we don't really see a lot of that. We see a lot of legacy in our gaming group. And even with the newer group that we've kind of gone ahead and started playing with out in Racine, you're looking at also similar output there as well, as far as legacy versus everything else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that does kind of match the current sentiment, right? Where a lot of the community is coming back from Mark II and III. I I guess it'd be natural that we would see more of those players coming coming in with uh legacy models.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and and I really appreciate that they're all coming in as prime and everything else. But what you're kind of looking at is a lot of people diving into more, I wouldn't say the one that I figured would have been more towards the top and actually wasn't was old Umbre. But we'll get more into that. I also went ahead and dove into you know Brian Bloods and their representation. I took a look at the lists. I'm not gonna go completely into depth and detail. I just wanted to pull out certain aspects that I felt was kind of important, and we'll kind of cover that in a little bit too. I feel like it's kind of worth mentioning because brine bloods are so close to my heart.
SPEAKER_00:You uh you you disgusting Brian Bloods are gonna be eating good this episode.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, absolutely. Our filthy, filthy boys and stinky trolls are gonna be coming out doing all sorts of work. And uh I'll also kind of touch on with John, because he went out and he did play against somebody who isn't in our smaller local gaming group. He actually played against someone who was giving him a good education lesson. They were kind enough to share some stuff with him and kind of coach him along the way. And also, uh we're also gonna talk about my game that I actually uh got to play into, which was the first time I played 50 points in Mark IV. Alright, so going into the tournament lists, the number one most commonly played army was actually Chimera. And there was out of 160 people playing, there was 18 of them, which puts them at eleven point two five percent of the overall representation. This is also what kind of shocked me was the next tier at 10% was three armies all at 10%, which was Gravediggers, Storm Legion, and House Calluses. Callus? Callus? Callus? Yeah. Sure, close enough. All three of those coming in at 16 per. And fourth place was old ombre with 15 representation at 9.375%.
SPEAKER_00:See a part of me I I I thought the same as Tony, where a lot of people who reviewed and did the unboxing for old hombre and they reviewed the rules, all kind of had the same mindset that old hombre was completely overpowered, and that's because they are the newest faction, they're the prettiest. And I think maybe to garner a little bit more excitement for them, the rule set for a lot of their models were slightly overpowered. But whether that's the case or not, it is interesting to see that they're not a favored faction coming into this. What do you think that why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_03:I think because they are still so new that there hasn't been enough time for people to actually dive, dive far into it, and also trying to work out like people are working actively on countering the meta with them, so you're gonna see that kind of thing pop up where you know they play strong. And again, at number five, still a good representation. I just figured they would have probably been in the top three, not necessarily in the top five.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, fair.
SPEAKER_03:But again, I also wasn't anticipating seeing Chimera be number one either. Yeah. I figured Chimera was gonna be in the top five, not number one.
SPEAKER_00:Storm Legion made sense. Uh maybe House Callus, but Gravediggers is kind of a sleeper here.
SPEAKER_03:Well, uh for me, I felt like Gravediggers is again a newer army. They've been coming out, but there's been enough time for people to play them and to really get intimate with them so that way they know where it's gonna fall. Also, you run into a lot of shooty boys with gravediggers, and I think you're gonna see some of that pop up. Also, Black Thirteenth, come on. They are disgusting. Yeah. And you can use them in Storm Legion, you can use them in Gravediggers, they're just gonna show up, and they're gonna make for a very bad day. Yeah. Necrofactorum is in sixth place with fourteen representations at eight point seven five percent. My boys, Brian Bloods, showing up with thirteen representations at eight point one two five percent. This is where you kind of see a drop. Next up, Orgoth Sea Raiders coming in with nine representations at five point six two five percent, infernals at eight at five percent, Wintercore, seven representations, four point three seven five percent, Dark Operations coming in with six representations at three point seven five percent. And then you have one that I'm not familiar with at three representations, army of Western Reaches at 1.875%. And then you'll see like Shadows of Retribution, Soldiers of Fortune, Grimkin. Grimkin's a little funny. I figured there might have been more than one, but there was only one. Convergence is one, Storm Knights is one, Legions of Dawn is one, Ravens of War is one, uh Final Intradiction is two, Royal Guard is one, Crucible Guard two. I figured with the announcement of Crucible Guard, there might have been a surge, but I can't remember if that was before or after lists had to be submitted. You might see that. Storm of the North 2, Talon Charter 2, Temple Guardians 1, Exalted 1, Dragons Host 1. That is legitimately all 160 lists. I shouldn't say list, but representations. That is everyone and that is what is being brought. And when you look at ones that have two, you're at 1.25%, and when you have one, again, 0.625. There's a lot going on with what I just rambled off and a lot of percentages. But this is mainly to kind of go over, you know, the top seven, top ten played armies. I'm kind of glad to see that these are kind of popping up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, it's also the the factions that Steamforge Games is also giving the most attention to. So you'll see a lot of these newer models come in for a lot of these factions, which I would assume would mix up the meta just because they're so new coming in, it'll be hard to kind of prepare against.
SPEAKER_03:With that, I was kind of hoping that they would show up at Worlds, but they didn't have enough stock. And with how fast old Umbray sold, they want to make sure that they have it readily available. Not having them available or only getting partway out, not releasing in time to get a full hundred-point army available for worlds makes sense on why it's also kind of stunted and delayed.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But looking at the Brian Bloods list, I kind of dove a little hard into it and sorry guys. Looking at the caster choices, you know, listening to some of the people talk and review, when I went through all 26 lists, there was a clear favorite as far as being not necessarily in list one, but in list two, but as the common backup, which really kind of surprised me, was Ragemonger. Out of the 26 lists, Ragemonger was featured nine times. While Shadow Tongue, Boom Howler, and Fowlblood all were featured five times. So that's fifteen and then nine, you got your twenty-four. Yeah, so somebody took Fire Quill, which I was like, ew, why? Might be a troll list, just to you know, monkey around a little bit. And then the uh flame tongue caster, I I I don't want to butcher his name, but it's like Bugga D Buan. So yeah. He's he's also got one representation.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the reason why we're so confused at seeing that representation or that split is some of the some of the con the the the consensus between and some of the top uh Brian Blitz players is that Boomhowler is the caster you want to come in with Warlock. To see that she is her repres representation is shared amongst Foulblood, who I haven't heard much positive reception for.
SPEAKER_03:He's he's a really good utilitarian caster. And he's really good at what he does. I just find him to be a little more he's very utilitarian. So he's able to be fit into these puzzle pieces and allows him, especially with Fortify and Blur as default, and then you can rack three, he really kind of starts showing up and he really starts being able to be that caster you need him to be when you need him there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Now, looking at some of the rack spells, I was very surprised to see that uh nobody picked rough C's. There's very few. And especially seeing Gravediggers and Storm Legion, I was like, uh, there's gonna be a lot of shooting. And that's maybe they want to kind of stumble their way up. I I'm not really sure.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, if you if you pop Foul Blood's feet, which is uh stumbling drunk, right? Or it gives provide stumbling drunk for everyone.
SPEAKER_03:It's rum and grape shot is his feet, and when he does his battle plan for open bar, he gets all units within 10 inches the ability to gain stumbling drunk.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, that's right. So I'm wonder if you combine that with uh rough C's, that kind of works against each other, though.
SPEAKER_03:Correct. That would not work well together. So utilizing that, you wouldn't want to have them together for that instance, and that's also trying to avoid them getting shot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Rough C's would be you run them up, you get up closer, you have rough C's for turn one, activate turn two, and you let your rough C's drop, and then you can go ahead and start stumbling your way forward. That way you can kind of get up there sooner rather than later. Also, the extra armor helps out, doesn't help your troll uh your like dire trolls, reef trolls, like anything like that, but all your other guys are gonna get boosted armor, they're gonna be able to survive that round and you'll be getting shot, you'll stumble further forward and hopefully be able to make your way to where you need to get to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it'll be interesting how they fare, or uh specific more specifically how Foul Blood fares. If people can prove other the the the the biggest critics of Foul Blood wrong, it'd be interesting to see that you know these newest units who are supposed to be kind of a what do you call it? Kind of like a starter, like a starter uh set. Units that that are typically used in starter sets are aren't gonna be too overpowered, they're kind of gonna be a little bit more balanced. It'll be interesting to see how they fare at a tournament.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm I'm really looking forward to seeing how the Brian Bloods are gonna do with the representation that they do have.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I'm actually kind of curious to see if Ragemonger is going to be that diversification piece where you see Ragemonger is that gets up on to you, tears you apart, and he will win on his feet round, where, you know, when you kind of look at Foul Blood, usually that's not the case. It's gonna be after that. The feet round is gonna get you into position of where you need to be, or it's gonna be, do we want them getting closer this turn? Do we wanna wait a round? And if you're playing objectives, is it worth letting them sit on some of these for that turn? It really kind of comes down to a strategy on how you want to handle it.
SPEAKER_00:That's true. Well, because one of the biggest complaints about Brian Bloods is that every every army plays the same because you're typically taking the same models, the same units, the same solos. Um and I I know you're gonna c get into that here in a second. You're gonna do that uh the breakdown of the individual uh models here. But yeah, I mean again, just the biggest variance here is is are the casters, so it'll be interesting to see how they play.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I feel bad. John's kind of just sitting over here reclining because we're covering all the nitty-gritty stuff. We'll get to you in a moment here, bud. That's all right. Take your time. Looking at the war beasts that they have in there, I tallied up with the war beasts how many times they were featured in the lists. So that means whether you have four reef trolls maxing out your field allowance or whatever the case may be, I did a total tally count at out of the 26 lists, how many times they were utilized. The Deeporn Dire Troll has 31 representations between the 26 lists. The reef trolls had only 15. So obviously there is a major boost into there. The Vroger? I did it in multiple sections for this one, because seeing him represented once and seeing him fielded twice, there was enough to sh kind of show that there was a want for him to be either paired or left singly. And with a Vroger being a single pick was ten times, where you see a Vrogger being paired having two of them was only five times. But either way, still showing up with 20 overall picks. Not a bad little way to go. My personal favorite, Chum, didn't really make as much as I wanted. Chum only showed up ten times out of twenty-six lists. From hearing all the complaints that he was too expensive and he's not showing up ten times out of twenty-six, still pretty good. Almost half of the lists had him in it. Now the one that did kind of shock me was the Abyssal King was only featured six times out of the twenty-six lists. And the great old one only five times.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder if that's a common sentiment across the other factions where you'll see colossals aren't used as much.
SPEAKER_03:That is going to be something that I'm gonna take a look at, but from what I've seen, Dusk is like everyone loves that new Colossus. It it's from what I understand, it is just ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, how many times did we see photos of two phantasms on the Banner Fleet?
SPEAKER_03:I that's what I'm saying. It's like I didn't look into that. Uh that might be something I'll do in the future, but I definitely want to see, you know, I I figured that we would have had more representation for the Abyssal King, but it's okay. You know, he's a big model, he is pretty expensive point-wise, and he doesn't necessarily play to how the army plays. I still would have figured that there would have been more, but again, you're going against a bunch of shooty armies, you don't want to have a big target like that sitting out there.
SPEAKER_00:You want to know why uh people haven't been bringing him out?
SPEAKER_03:Because he's a uh he's a a big tentacle monster?
SPEAKER_00:Well, no, I was gonna use some uncouth uh phrasing here. No, he he looks like a pain to paint. Oh, barnacles. Yes. And you do have to bring painted armies, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00:Uh that's probably why that's the that's the biggest factor.
SPEAKER_03:I I've I've been watching in like war machine community on Facebook and everywhere else. I've seen people are like, do you know how long this takes? He is such a monster. And it's great to see, and especially I'm part of the Brine Bloods community as well. And uh I actually am in the War Machine and Hordes, I want to say beginners group or something like that. I know that we do have uh one of their moderators who does listen. They've been great as far as assisting with uh helping us with pro um older lore books, because they found out Joe and I have been trying to collect them, and that way we can kind of eventually do like lore dives and go from Mark I into Mark II, into Mark III, into Mark IV. Going from Mark IV, looking back is great, but you're kind of getting this I don't want to say tainted image, but you're getting not a hundred percent the pure accurate necessarily verbiage. And it's actually something that I noticed in some of the things coming up that we have done, that I noticed that they refer to certain things differently depending on what and when it's written. It's gonna be something that we had the one guy on Reddit who mentioned how I said assassin. Well, now looking back and looking forward, there is representation where they turn around in a different lore section calling her an executioner or to execute him. So it's like, okay, now we have to kind of figure out because it's two different words. Again, splitting hairs, assassin, executioner, reading. Uh, we had another person on Reddit who shared the books. I was only able to get a little bit further because then I got locked out of the Google Drive because you can only go so far because I didn't have access to it. But it did end with me getting to where Falsier actually does uh slay Gersheld. And I mean, setting up the ambush, putting all the runes on him, getting him locked up, putting him into a basically a paralytic state kind of feels like you're assassinating someone, because it took time to get there, but it was absolutely an execution. She definitely drops her axe on his head and takes care of it.
SPEAKER_00:And makes a public showing out of it.
SPEAKER_03:Uh no, it was very private. It was uh definitely how it seemed from what I read, it was uh like one-on-one. Cause she was calling into question his methods and methodology, and he was like, Yeah, I don't really care anymore. And then she activates the runes, which makes him drop down and she like ends it. Looking at it, we have the booty boss, which poor John is laughing hysterically over here. Okay, so you okay? Alright. So the booty boss featuring two in a list was eleven times, and only having one was only featured eight. Which definitely tells me that there is a higher desire to have them spread out to give their battle plans out to help share amongst the the marauder crews and to help kind of boost everyone up.
SPEAKER_00:Two is the uh maximum allowed field allowance?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:The other thing that I thought was kind of uh interesting was we were talking earlier about Boomhowler and Madame Moriarty. Boomhowler is the one that gives the shield. He's gonna make sure that your units get to where they need to go, they're gonna have blast resistance, he's gonna make it so that way they're a lot harder to kill, especially your Marauder crews and your pig crews. That's kind of key. Uh seeing how Boomhowler was picked, he was only picked 12 times out of 26 lists, which kind of surprised me, because hearing some chatter back and forth, it sounded like he was gonna be a lot higher up there. And the one that I thought was going to be inversed was Madame Moriarty. Hearing that, you know, she's really good, she does all this stuff, but hearing some chatter back and forth, legitimately, she is in every single list for the Brian Bloods. Twenty-six times she was picked for 26 lists. So obviously I missed something there, and I'm gonna have to go back and really dive in and look at how she's being utilized. I know she synergizes really well. She has amazing uh capabilities of boosting up your damage output, but I didn't think that it was going to be that drastic of a difference. I figured it was more important to get your models to where they needed to be to do the job as compared to that situational pop.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's certainly a shock. I wonder how Steamforge is gonna process this, right? Because I'm sure their balance update coming in January is gonna reflect the showing from the from this tournament. I I would be slightly concerned that Madame Moriarty is so overutilized, uh, to the point that they may nerf her. But we'll see.
SPEAKER_03:You know, the the the fact with Marionette that she within 10 inches can make an enemy re-roll an attack or damage roll is kind of gross. And also with Puppet Master, you can do the exact same thing, but for a friendly unit. So I I guess I understand why she's doing that, but the ranges are kind of short.
SPEAKER_00:What what's the range? What are we looking at?
SPEAKER_03:Well, Marionette, where you make the enemy re-roll, is 10 inches. Puppet Master, where you target your friendly units to do that, is six.
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. So you're gonna be well within a lot of enemy fire ranges.
SPEAKER_03:You're gonna have to be hiding. You're gonna have to be moving. But at three points.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I think she's a lot better than Mr. Boggs. Yeah. She has a lot more versatility than Boggs.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you're talking about uh Marion Marionette. Is that the one where you target the enemy?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:That could literally spell the difference between a wiped out unit and target enemy, model, or unit.
SPEAKER_03:Have one affected model re-roll, one attack or damage roll.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's insane.
SPEAKER_03:If you know that the hit is most likely, which honestly is fairly often, then that's probably where you're gonna want to go.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, there's really no risk to having Well, I mean, your second roll could be worse, but you're not typically going to be activating those unless for a very specific scenario where you're trying to box out a unit.
SPEAKER_03:Aaron Powell Well, here's the other thing. This is this is also where it kind of falls in, is with Battle Wizard. Once per turn, when this model destroys or removes from play one or more enemy models with a melee attack during its activation, immediately after the attack is resolved, it can make one magic ability, special attack, or special action. Now you're gonna boost up your guys. She can kill a model and then get to do one of those actions essentially for free.
SPEAKER_00:What what actions?
SPEAKER_03:The Marionette, the Puppet Master.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, it that specifically. Yeah. Oh wow. So you can theoretically cast it twice. You box out an enemy model and then also cast.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Oh.
SPEAKER_03:And now it's a lot harder to hit you. Well, but the other problem is she's defense twelve.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she's getting hit. What's her armor? 16.
SPEAKER_03:So that's not bad. It's not bad, but you still don't want an old girl being up there.
SPEAKER_00:What about HP? Eight. Holy cow.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's you you don't like seeing that.
SPEAKER_00:But the fact that she's included in every list. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03:She's she's got some stuff going on. Uh another one that I noticed that wasn't really that high up there was surgeons. I figured with a healing, but again, when you're running trolls, you're they're gonna fall, they're gonna die. Same thing with the pigs. It's not necessarily one of those bigger, more active kind of ones. The Marauder crews I did again, because you know they're gonna be in every list. So it came down to how many was their field allowance? Was it one, two, three, or four? Of course, at number one, the most picked was Marauder Crews at four with eight picks. They were featured for Marauder Crews eight times out of the 26 lists. The one that did kind of throw me off was I figured it would have been in descending order, four, three, two, one. It's not. It was actually number two came in second with seven picks.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Right, which that kind of threw me off because I was like, only two, but it was one of those ones that I was like, okay, all right. I kind of see it. You see a little bit more pigs in there, you see more like troll or like trolls in there. It makes sense. But I was like, eh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, why I mean unless there's a very specific reason where you pair up two Maratha crews to a troll, maybe it's uh it just makes more sense to have to be a little bit more.
SPEAKER_03:Distract and smash.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Just run up and start beating down. Number three was picked five times, and only one Marauder crew was only picked once.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that that one that one I was like, okay, that one that one makes sense. But I figured there would have and again, when you look at it point wise, it all kind of falls in line.
SPEAKER_00:But it just Having one Marauder crew is a little confusing. I mean, of course, it's only included in one list. So that I can't even imagine what kind of scenario you would want only one Murata crew. Because they can't do enough on their own.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Right. And that's I think it was it probably was uh I I didn't really look at that one a whole lot and I didn't take notes on that. I I'm going to assume that it was probably either a heavy troll list or they had a lot of pigs as their supporting crews. Having more ambushy, you just have those guys out there to kind of help either shoot when you've got the um bosun or you've got somebody else out there.
SPEAKER_00:He's including the fire quill list.
SPEAKER_03:Probably. If he's only a one. Yeah. Yeah. If you've just got the one, I'd be like, all right, well, that kind of makes sense. The pig dirge, I wanted to see, because they're only two points. I wanted to see how often they were actually played. And utilizing two, they were it was only featured three times when you pick two of them for four points in total. But I was wondering about it because they have the ability to mark target, which makes them a lot easier to get shot at. They have high flying, so it's harder to hit them. They have reposition three, movement seven. It's more so the mark target for two points that kind of sets them up. But their bomb, on the other hand, brutal damage on a direct hit, gain an additional die. It's pretty good. But again, you know, threat range of 13. But for two points, you get one off. That might be worthwhile. And then you mark the target and makes things a little bit easier. Last but not least, the ones that I kind of was tracking most Lockbash Brothers. I was hoping you were gonna see more of them, but they were only featured nine times out of 26 lists. I was hoping for at least a halfway point, but not too far off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, d I would have thought the sanguine bonds alone would have made them a much more viable pick. I I I I just I really wanna get in the minds of these players and understand where they're coming up with these lists. Because for me, espe I mean with again, zero background in war gaming, but with someone with, you know, decent moderate amount of experience in real-time strategy games, it's interesting to see that a lot of my own predictions are wrong. And I don't know, I it's just weird to see that you'll see little picks here and there where you'll include like a small amount of of multiple different kinds of models rather than kind of having more of a synergistic, like you max out field allowances of of a few models rather than you know what I mean, where you're thinning out your army with like a bunch of little different things.
SPEAKER_03:You're running into the situational you plan for certain situations. Having two lists allows you to have option A, option B. I'm gonna have the utilitarians of Admiral Boomhowler or Commodore Foulblood, and then you have your I'm going to smash everything to oblivion rage monger. And then you've got your magic caster, I'm gonna sacrifice my own units to kill their units with Shadow Tog. It really falls in line with what do you want, and how are you going to plan and how you're building to counter the potential armies out there. And when you kind of build your list, you try to take, okay, this one is gonna be anti-shooty, and it's gonna be a rushing army. So they're gonna like get up there as fast as humanly possible, and they're gonna pop up and they're gonna start smashing things to pieces. Or I'm gonna go caster heavy and I'm gonna be slinging spells constantly, utilizing different tactics. That's not necessarily in this army, but it's still something to be mindful of.
SPEAKER_00:So let me ask you this, then. You you you're coming into a tournament, so you your strategy, your game plan is between the two lists let's say you're taking in Brian Bloods, one is specifically for anti-range, and one is specifically for maybe a more diverse, kind of a balanced game, or do you build lists specifically to counter a specific faction? In your experience, how do you think War Machine works?
SPEAKER_03:Well, again, not playing in tournaments, but usually you know what the meta is. When you think about it, and I'm gonna reference Warhammer over here. When Old World was coming out, you knew people were bringing in dragons. You knew they were coming in with dragons, that was the meta, it was just gonna be unstoppable. They're terror causing, they they have all these different things. And then you start looking into chaos, and then it's like, oh, okay, chaos, Nurgle dragon, you're just not gonna be able to kill it. It's just not gonna happen. That's why that was one of the metas. So you would build your list to counter these dragons, and it still really didn't work. It was it was like, alright, we're gonna everything else dies, and your thousand-point dragon's gonna fly around and eat everything. You build it to compete at that level. Now, that's not how I've ever played. I don't play that way. I don't I build what I want to play. If I think this is fun, I'm gonna play that. And we're actually gonna be jumping off these lists here. In my recent game that I just had, where I played, you know, my 50 points, I busted out the starter set, I pulled Mr. Boggs out, dropped in Nisak, I pulled out uh I left in Sully, because you know, Sully's a great little distraction. And then I ran in my reef troll. So I came in, I want to say it was like 48 points out of 50. And then my opponent who was playing Orgoth came in at 49 points, and I just looked at his list and I was like, oh my god. He was explaining every unit and everything. I was like, holy cow. I'm like, how many hitboxes do they have? It's like 170 hitboxes, and I'm like, maybe at like 100, 110. How am I gonna get through this? I'm like, this is I'm like, I'm not built to smash apart this many. I went more, you know, troll heavy because I was like, oh well, I need to kind of fill up and boost up my numbers real quick.
SPEAKER_00:Chum in your uh, what was it, your diet troll is taking up like 60% of those boxes?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, for sure. It it was, yeah, at least 60%. And I was like, okay, and I kind of built my troll to be like a retaliatory striker, and I was like, all right, this this will be good, this will be fine. Sully didn't die this time, which I was actually really surprised by kept having Sully hop around the building. So he would fly over the building, drop bombs, and then uh reposition five, and he would jump back over the building and he would sit there out of sight so they couldn't get to him. And then if they tried, he would just fly over, drop a bomb, and fly like jump back to the other side. So it would have been an endless chase.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, is that a is that a character trait? He he can fly over terrain?
SPEAKER_03:He has flight. And when you have flight, it allows you to fly over terrain.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow. Yeah, there aren't too many models with that then.
SPEAKER_03:Uh actually, all of your chimera have that.
SPEAKER_00:They all have flight? Yes. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03:All of your chimera. Yeah, that's also why they have flying high, you know, minus 30 year range on that one. Wow. See, this is where you need to start playing more. I know, I really do. By turn two, I was already positioning myself. Nisak comes ambushing out and was able to get in position. By turn, I think three, we had a little opening and the uh Orgoth player dove onto my trolls and figured, you know, popping the feet, we're gonna beat them into the ground. The way I had them set up, that was not gonna be an easy task, and they weren't able to kill my deep born dire troll. Almost close, but not fully there. Chum took no damage and actually got pushed back enough that he was able to charge through and get at the enemy warcaster and gobble him up. And it worked out really well because Foulblood was also in a good advantageous spot to charge. If Chum wasn't able to seal the deal, Foulblood absolutely would have with full fury, and Chum was empty when he charged. So I was like, alright.
SPEAKER_00:I like how they just charged the Orgoth armies charged straight at your trolls. Like it as if to make a statement.
SPEAKER_03:It was it was legitimately.
SPEAKER_00:Do you feel like that was the only play they had? Was it getting to that point?
SPEAKER_03:I think the fact that I removed one of his solos that allowed him to have more battle plans and to kind of get into position a little bit better uh by eliminating him as a key piece early on, that kind of set the tone for the rest of the game because there were so many models out there that they were kind of like blocking each other and they weren't able to move as efficiently as they should have. But, you know, I play what I think is going to be fun. You know, Nisak, she's really good at jumping out, but the problem is, you know, you need another turn to get her into position and then have her come out. I again, I keep mismarking my prey. And I saw openings and I didn't go after my prey. I went after somebody else instead because it was more advantageous, but still, it's you you kind of look and you try to balance it out, and I just I play what I think is fun. And I think Nisak, especially since uh my buddy painted her for me, and it it's a gorgeous model. Uh I'll see about putting that up in the Facebook on the Facebook page and in the group. It it's she's a great little model. I think she's fun to play with. She looks like a predator, so why not? I'm a big aliens and predator person. Exactly. Yeah, so seeing her come out and she's got like bamboo behind her, it's just it's super sick. But jumping out there and actually getting in that game at, you know, 50 points, I'm like, you know, it trying to figure out what a hundred points is gonna be like is just nuts. Like watching 100 point games, trying to play 30 points, and it's taking as long as some of these guys playing 100 points, I'm like, oh, I've got a little ways to go.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, especially considering that their their turns are timed.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Yeah. When you're when you're on a strict time limit and you've got to play five game or I I don't know what their their stand well, I guess we could look it up on Steamroller and see exactly what the rules are, but knowing that you're on a very strict time limit, you gotta move and you gotta think quick. And I I am pretty good at you know thinking quick and getting my stuff moved. Sure. You cut the banter down, you cut the chit-chat, and you know, you have fun while you're doing it, but you're also, you know, mission focused.
SPEAKER_00:Well that's the thing, right? I mean, I think fifty points is a happy medium between you know getting a little bit more serious into the game, but you're able to enjoy yourself. Which is what really matters at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Why do it if you're not gonna have fun?
SPEAKER_00:Why do it if you're not gonna win?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, that's one way to look at it. But speaking of not winning, hey John, how'd your game go? Uh not as good as yours went, but still pretty uh good. What army did you play? I played the Crick's army. Who was your warcaster? War Witch Dinagra. Okay. So you had Dinagra? Nope. What else did your army consist of? So I had two Ripjaws? You said what? Rip Ripjaws? I don't know if that's what their actual name was, but they were like The little chicken jacks, the melee chicken jacks. Those guys. Yeah, so you're you're playing legacy cricks. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. No, great. They make a reappearance.
SPEAKER_03:And for those of you who uh don't know, Dinagra is not a prime model. She did not make the cut.
SPEAKER_00:Is that the one that you can uh take control of an enemy model?
SPEAKER_03:It is. Uh that is usually when I play her, I try to keep at least three focus on her to cast that spell. What is that called? It's called Dark Seduction. There you go. I am allowed to take control of a non-leader enemy, which is not a well, because when I played against Tony, who is the guy I more recently played, who I learned a lot from, he let not to cut you off, but I think the models that we were talking about was Death Rippers, the melee. Yes. So those were the chicken jacks. Then I have a Defiler. Defiler. That is my spray guy overall my more favorite one. Because if any of them are in a straight line, if you hit one of them, as long as they're all in a line, you can hit them all. Do you remember high enough? Yeah. So do you remember what that's called? Uh the attack? Yes. Uh, I want to say it's like sludge cannon. That is. What is the attack called, though? When you shoot in a straight line, what is that called? Spray. Spray. That is correct. Now, what is the range on that? Now, he doesn't have his phone. Perfect. He doesn't have his phone. So I'm sitting here looking and asking.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm like, quiz. You're like grilling your son. I am. I don't even know the answer to these questions.
SPEAKER_03:I actually I did know that. I actually had to double check on what the name of the one was because I'm like, there's two of them. One of them's like ripjaw, one of them's the other one. Then there's a slayer, which is my robot or like my giant tank. Yep, your heavy jack. Yep. Uh he has an attack where I can use or so he has a double mandible attack or whatever. Uh to uh double claw attack, or I can combine it as one attack and get plus four to my your damage roll? Y Yes. And what is that called? This is actually a fairly common ability. What is it called? Weapon mastery? No. It's called combo strike. Oh yes. And then I think uh oh. Um I don't remember I had five people with axes. I don't remember what they were called though. Oh come on. What were they called?
SPEAKER_00:They're called Axe 1, Axe 2. You would think so.
SPEAKER_03:But I know that they had um Bane Bane Warriors. Bane Warriors, that is correct. Uh they have invisibility. Ghostly. Whoa. I'm pretty sure So they don't have invisibility. They have stealth. Stealth, that's what I miss. So they have stealth. They also have dark shroud, which does what? I can walk through terrain without Nope, that's ghostly. Dark Shroud. While within two inches of this model. Uh minus two defense. Minus two armor. Armor. Okay. Remember it's minus two at the same time. So now mind you guys, I've got my phone here. This is John trying to remember. John has played probably about five games total. Five games total. And he's been playing for now probably a few months, but he doesn't get to play nearly as often as I do. Uh, but we are making a more uh we'll say conscientious effort for him to come out and to play because he actually does enjoy it very much. Now, here's here's a good little pivot away. John, you also play video games, yeah? I love my video games. I do too. I love playing video games. I mean, who doesn't? Joe, you play video games? Uh yes. Okay. So again, Joe's like, uh yeah, I I play I play on the uh Nintendo uh playing Pokemans. Yeah, I play my Pokemans. So, you know, we all enjoy playing video games. Video games for me is when I turn off my brain and I just veg out and I just shut it down. And John is definitely a video gamer for sure, but he also enjoys playing War Machine. Why? So I like the community behind War Machine more than um video games because in War Machine you get to be up like you can ask questions without pretty much getting yelled at for some of the games I play. And then also they can teach you, like, if you Oh wait, no, I just said that. No, you you what you said was is that you you can ask questions and you won't feel ridiculed or you won't get yelled at for asking questions. Well, you know, it it sounds bad, but in other games it's extremely toxic, video games especially, where you will get ostracized or you'll get yelled at for asking questions about hey, how does this go? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:We're looking at you, uh Call of Duty. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. League of Legends.
SPEAKER_03:I mean Magic the Gathering. I mean God. Uh there's a reason I don't play it anymore. I've never played League of Legends. Don't don't. Uh yeah, dad used to play that too. What I really enjoy, and by the way, that was not a coached response. That was him actually coming out with community. I agree a hundred percent. I have played a lot of different tabletop war games. I played a lot of video games for a long time. I have found that the war machine community, especially, is one of the most accepting communities I have found. Now, there is other communities that are also really good. Uh, I want to say, like um, MCP or Marvel Crisis Protocol. When I have dabbled in there, they have also been very uh happy to help, willing to kind of boost up the community because it again, it's a little bit smaller of a game. It is making its way through, it is doing really well. I find that that War Machine, the community itself, and the groups that we have begun to fraternize with and to kind of uh spend our times with have been very happy to help. They're everyone acknowledges that we're, you know, that I'm still learning. I don't claim to be this, you know, fantastic player, you know, I coming in and out every edition and then finding my place. And I was kind of concerned because I was like, I don't really know if this is going to be a good fit for my children to come into, especially coming into a new group that I've only experienced once so far. But the people that we did play with were fantastic, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna roll the dice here. I'm gonna bring out my video game son and see what happens. And it was great. It was really good to see, really, as as a parent watching my child play really was exciting for me.
SPEAKER_00:Not to uh detract from the sentiment sentimentality of your statement, but when you said video game sun, I just pictured you carrying a game cube.
SPEAKER_03:I I mean I did my game cube. Yeah, this is yeah. Uh what what was that from um BMO from Adventure Time? Oh yeah, yeah. Oh it's Beamo. Uh yeah. So What? Yeah, and now I I'm so distracted because now all I see is Beamo in my head. Um there I I'm just really glad to see, and I've I've had my kids play various tabletop war games. Uh they've played old world, they uh you have you played 40k? That's where uh we played with the Scathens. Nope, that would be Old World. I have not played 40K though. Okay. But, you know, you've you've painted some models, you've built models. Yes. And now you after your game and seeing how my models were painted and seeing everybody else's painted models, you uh kind of set a goal for yourself, right? Yes. I said I would like to start painting my uh models.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, painting your Crick's army up. Yep. Cricks are pretty monotone, right? Are they all pretty like one note?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, for the most part. They're they're you know, dark, metallic. If you want to go really heavy into like glow effect, you could do like a green, a blue. You can do stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So pretty beginner friendly. I think it'd be a good faction to start with.
SPEAKER_03:Up until the point that you start doing glow effects.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I'm I'm not that guy. I I tried doing that with uh with some of the painting lately, and I'm just like, ugh, I can't do this.
SPEAKER_00:You're like, no one cares about this anyways.
SPEAKER_03:Uh I'm like, hey, my guys are painted. This is good enough for me. I'm happy with it. So I I just kind of move on and I'm just like, I'll just leave this be.
SPEAKER_00:I just I'll just shine a flashlight on them. There you go. There's your glow effect.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, exactly. As I sit there twitch and I'm like, oh, there's a black spot on my sword scamper now. And I'm like, well, I can't fix that, so it will live there. Falk. I'm looking at you. But so what was some takeaways that you had on your game? So you mean like my highlights of the game? Yeah. My defiler, my favorite person. Um I lined it straight up with like four people in the radius of its range of eight inches. So I was able to hit um You said four people. Yep, four people. I missed one person from the four. Okay. So I managed to hit one guy who is the like my Bane Warriors, but for the other uh for the protectorate. Oh, okay. So you're playing against the protectorate of Manoth? Yes. Nice. So he so Tony was he had this group of people and the person who I attacked first gave them a buff of plus defense. So made it harder to hit them. Yes. Okay. So I still managed to hit him downing him in the process. Okay. I ended up killing the other guy who was beside him. Okay. Then I attacked the his slayer. Okay. Oh, his his like heavy warjack? Yeah, his heavy warjack. Okay. I just don't know the term for it. Yeah, it I unfortunately wasn't uh I was a little focused on my game. Yeah. So I know you were playing protect you were playing against protectorate, but I wasn't uh exactly paying attention to Wahoo or how you were playing that. Yeah, I eventually turned around and I saw my dad pretty much losing. I was like, oh, I think he's gonna lose. And then I turned back around or and then I lost the game, but I still I learned probably more from this game alone than I have every other time I've played, though. Do you think that it was also partially because you were playing against a stranger that was also uh Tony is very knowledgeable in the game. Uh I think it was because he was like kinder and more like teaching-wise. But like one thing that he said was I don't really want you to do this, but this is what you should do. So he's sharing tactics and insight. Yes. Okay. So like to pop my feet, which allows me to uh lower pretty much everything except for damage rolls, uh like dealing damage by two. Okay. So they're armor, their defense. So it really cripples your opponent when you pop your feet with the Nagra. Yes. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. That range is 14. I do remember that. Oh. As well as That's because of your control range? Yep. My control range. As well as being able to use my war jack as uh beacon to then cast off of that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I do like that for you, John, just because for me, and it's funny because John has played vastly more games than I have at this point.
SPEAKER_03:I'd say you're about tied.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe, yeah. I haven't been in in in in a little while. But um what I really like that Tony number two did, um to the Tony sitting across from me is Tony number one, but what number two did That's right, I may have number one. He he really took the time, and it's funny, I'm I'm talking as if I was there. I wasn't there. This is on the third, a second, secondhand account. He really took the time to teach John, you know, not for me, one of my biggest struggles was when to use the feet. And I would just use the feet in only one situation when I know I can get the kill. But you know, there's a lot more use cases for that. So I think just understanding because it's hard to really figure that out on your own, even with multiple games under your belt.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Right? You know, you kind of do need that guiding hand, someone to show you, like, hey, this is this is what's possible.
SPEAKER_03:It took me probably close to like seven or eight games to kind of figure out how to use foul blood's feet properly after I was conserving, I was conserving, and then I was using it as like an armor shield, and I was like, you know what? Let's go turn two. Yeah. I've had a lot better results using my feet with foul blood earlier than I have been later. I'm able to get up closer, I'm able to keep my guys alive, I'm able to get to where I need to be faster.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because when you look at some of the battle reports, a lot of these players, higher level players, are trying to set up a turn two kill. So popping your feet in turn one is is definitely a viable strategy.
SPEAKER_03:If everybody is in proximity and but you've got to be careful when you do that, and the reason why is because when you pop your feet and you give everybody stumbling drunk by doing open bar, and then you run everybody up, you're either having you're you're running into like a a crowding issue. You're gonna want him to go first to get everyone that ability, right? Because otherwise they're gonna be going everywhere else, and are they gonna be in range of that 10 inches that you need to use open bar.
SPEAKER_00:You mean if you're defending current one. Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Or even attacking. So going first or going second. Looking at it, you're gonna want it realistically, you're gonna want to do it probably around turn two, going late turn three. Because you're gonna get everybody up and you're gonna get foul blood into position to maximize that, and then you pop your feet. Because if you don't, and everybody runs off, and nobody and usually you're not gonna be, and I say usually, you might not be in range to get shot, and you're definitely not in melee range by the end of turn one. Trying to get that stumbling drunk, you're gonna wanna have somebody who's gonna be coming up quicker.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, uh, you might be able to get, you know, I think I was shot turn one, but it was only by like one person, and they had pretty decent range. I don't know. Something to kinda think about and something to look at.
SPEAKER_00:No, for sure.
SPEAKER_03:What about you? Any other uh high points, low points? For another one of my high points, uh I casted one of my Warwitch Nagra spells. I wanna say it was Black Talon. Okay, yep. Um I had so it's an AoE attack. If I hit the first person, it's a power uh power twelve. If I hit the second person, it counts as a power eight. And then if I land a critical, I get uh they get minus two, I wanna say defense, three defense. Or armor. What else? It's defense. Okay. I had to double check because I know she has black talons, but I couldn't remember what it was. But yes, you are correct. Cost of three, range of ten, AoE three, which is hot yeah, which is kinda gross. I hit the slayer. Um The Protectorate Slayer. Well well we'll just call him the Heavy Warjack because Slayer is what you have on your field. Uh I could hopefully go in and take a look and see if I can find it. Um but then his big Warjack started beating all my guys up. Yeah, they they tend to do that. Yeah. That's pretty much how I lost a game. And his leader, uh, Warcaster, she pretty much teleported right up to my Warcaster and just destroyed me with like two attacks.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But that's pretty much about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, see, and that's the problem when you don't even when you're new, so new to the game, you don't know what your opponent does. I mean, teleporting right up to your jet uh your casser.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's never fun. Yeah, you can't account for that. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:And you know, with with my game, you know, the first time I was going up against Orgoth, he was listing off everyone's abilities and sp like I my my brain was melting. I was like, holy cow, everyone could do all of this plus I'm like, okay, hold on. And they all have eight hitboxes? Oh my god. Yeah, it it was for me, it was an uphill fight. John was definitely getting guided and was being shown a great way to to play the game. Uh you also left with a they gave you a quick start guide that they printed out. He uh Tony said that it was a cheat seat, uh cheat she sheet. Yeah. Which is also really nice. And then they also gave you a little widget too. Yes. Uh two inch, one inch, three inch, and a five inch. Yep. No. The sides of it. Yep. So it's a quick little measurement tool that will help you place your models to be within uh I don't want to say coherency, but within, you know, proper unit placement. Yep, so that will that will be able to help me with my Bane Warriors minus two armor defense. Yeah, and that's if they're within two inches, but it also helps you keep them within the two inches that you need to have them. And the three inches for my spell. Mm-hmm. Well, I think I don't have anything else. Joe, do you have anything else?
SPEAKER_00:No, I mean other than the shout out, the you know, Tony number two. Yeah. No, just uh he's the one organizing of these events and just goes to show, you know, piggyback piggybacking off of what Tony number one was saying earlier. Uh the community is great. Um, you know, these guys are doing in person what we're trying to achieve over this podcast. Um, and that's just spreading the good word of War Machine. Just really excited to see, you know, what's what's to come out of us interacting with this new group. Um really appreciative what they've done so far and just excited for for what's to come.
SPEAKER_03:I agree. There is definitely a lot of fun and I'll say more nifty things that we're gonna be doing going forward, I might see about trying to incorporate more people and kind of seeing how we having the kids drop in every once in a while and kind of go from there. You know, get maybe uh Eli in here. Eli is my other son. I have three in total. So I have John, Eli, and Isaac, from oldest to youngest. Isaac really doesn't play. He has expressed that he wants to get on the podcast by told him, like, hey bud, once we uh get you actually playing a couple games and kinda have you, you know, reign in the attention long enough, you know, being a 10-year-old, 10, 11, 10, almost 11. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think he said Eli. You're talking about Isaac.
SPEAKER_03:Isaac Isaac has said he wants to come on the podcast. Does he really? Yes, he does. And I'm like, well, yeah. I was like, well, we'll we'll see. We'll see. Uh, but I I do uh I'll see about having that happen at some point. Yeah, because his birthday's coming up real soon. It's again, it's one of those things that I'm just so grateful for the community that we do have, the community that we're building, and seeing not just what I'm doing, what Joe's doing, what John's doing, what I don't want to shout out the group that we're we're playing with, because I I'm I'm a big stickler for getting permission. That's why we haven't talked about the shop that we go to up here in Racine. That request is out waiting to hear back. And then I will actually go on to our Discord with them and I will see about shouting them out at some point as well. I know that they just played in some tournaments, they did really well. Very excited for them on that. But again, seeing how this community keeps growing and keeps building, it just reinforces everything that I've been doing and knowing that this is the correct call. You want to come back on again? Uh sure. Okay. Well, we'll see how it goes and see how many more games you get in and see what the progress is, and maybe I'll uh share with the world what you've gotten accomplished. I shall show the world what the Crics can do. Oh they're doing pretty well. Necrofactorum, I think, uh took what, the Nova? No. Uh that's what uh the group that we're a part of. They played Necrofactorum and they they took uh they went undefeated five to zero. Undefeated. Yeah, five and oh. I was like, holy cow, well done. But all right, guys. Well, I'm gonna wrap this up here. I think we're pretty good, yeah? Yeah. I'm good as well. All right. Well, everybody have a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good to have you on here, John. All right, take care, everyone.
